Replies

1. The bible sometimes has apparent contradictions.

The Bible contains statements that would appear to be contradictory, but they cannot be because God is not a God of confusion. Any apparent contradiction can and must be harmonized using other passages of scripture.

2. Scripture citing resistance to grace is one of those contradictions

No, the scriptures you cite indicating that one can resist the grace of God would appear, without the introduction of other truths, to present an apparent contradiction. The problem with your posts however is that you don't attempt to reconcile the apparent contradiction. For example someone who advocates the fact that God is a spirit must attempt to harmonize those verse indicating that God has body parts. That person cannot insist that those verses do not belong in the Bible or cannot be true.

3. You cite Ro 9:14-15 as meaning that human will is not a component in God's mercy.

Romans 9 v.15 says ...but I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I ill have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth of him that runneth, but of God who shows mercy." Therefore, it is clear from the text that one cannot become a child of God based on the strength or exercise of their will.

4. You cite Ro 9:18 to mean that God prevented Pharaoh from doing God's bidding.

No. You misstated the point. God did not prevent Pharoah from doing His bidding. God hardened Pharoah and that was his bidding. God hardens whom he will harden for his own glory. And shows mercy to whom he will have mercy for His own glory. Therfore God is glorified not only in the salvation of sinners, but also in their judgment and punishment.

You cite Ro 8:30 to mean that the predestinated cannot resist.

Romans 8:30 says "For whom he did predestinate, them he also called (called through the preaching of the gospel):and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Again, there is no hint here that anyone chosen by God will be able to successfully resist Him, all will be called, justified and ultimately glorified.

5. You cite John 6:37-39 to mean that the predestinated can do nothing but come to Jesus.

Simply read the text and don't attempt to rephrase it. It doesn't say that the predestinated can do "nothing but come to Jesus." That implies fatalism. Here we go again. "All that the Father hath given me shall come to me; and him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out." "And this is the father's will which he hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day." The scripture says that all that the Father hath given unto the Son will come unto the Son. If all come, and as we saw in Romans that all those predestined will come and ultimately be glorified, that leaves absolutely no room for a predestinated person being able to successfully resist the grace of God.

6. You cite Ro 9:20 to support total inability.

No. Romans 9:20 is cited to show that the non-elect cannot make any claim of unrighteousness against God for making them a vessel of dishonor. Again, look at the verse. "Shall the thing formed say unto him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? v.21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of honor and another unto dishonor. All this is that he might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which he hath prepared unto glory. v. 23.

7. You summarize by saying that the elect cannot resist and that the non-elect are hardened.

8. You conclude saying that arminians finding verses that teach resistance is only a partial picture.

Because of God's predestinating love for the elect and the immutability of the covenant of redemption made between the Father and the Son, the elect person will never be able to successfully resist the will of God. That person will be brought to God. All those given by the Father to the Son will come to the Son. Because God has not bestowed His compassion on the non-elect, the non-elect rejects God. However, that rejection is not so much a reaction to His gracious calling as a statement of his native depravity. No man seeketh after God. As that man continues in his rejection of God, God sovereignly can choose to harden him as part of his judgment.

Excellent post...

One of the things that non Calvinists like to say is that the Irrestible Grace of God has turned us into robots , and that only a free will salvation has any value

What they fail to understand is that the Grace of God does not bind us and make us automatons, but His love has instead turned us into his friends.
(Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. )

That grace is "infallible and certain" but it is that way because God conquers our heart by" loving persuasion".

1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

The most amazing thing to me Tex is that every man that is saved was wooed by that grace and yieled to it..If my Arminian brothers and sisters asked thmeself what was different on the day they repented and believed..my guess would be an overwhelming presence of the love of God wooed and converted them

1. I agree with your #1 response.
2. We agree that the entire Bible is in harmony.
3. I disagree with your interpretation of scripture in #3.
4. You say, God hardened Pharoah and that was his bidding. Is the "his" referring to God or Pharaoh? That is, are you saying "God hardened Pharaoh and that was God's bidding?" Or are you saying, "God hardened Pharaoh and that was Pharaoh's bidding?"
5. all those predestined will come and ultimately be glorified. You say this is the interpretation of the John 6 verses. Is that correct?
6. You cite Romans 9:20 to say, non-elect cannot make any claim of unrighteousness against God for making them a vessel of dishonor. How is that not the same as total inability?
7. You left it intact, so I understood correctly. We disagree.
8. You leave 8 intact, agreeing with it, but adding that total depravity is the reason they are not able to seek God. We disagree.

Can you clarify #'s 4,5,6?