Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Society Of St Pius X - Further Negotiations with Rome
June/July Newsletter of the SSPX in Great Britain | June/July 2002

Posted on 07/10/2002 2:43:22 PM PDT by FBDinNJ

The Society Of St Pius X - Further Negotiations with Rome - A Summary of a Conference given by Bishop Fellay on 6 May 2002 at St Michael's School

His Lordship began by expressing his initial surprise at the change of attitude towards the Society on the part of the Vatican. Until a year and a half ago, the SSPX was stigmatised as "schismatic" and "excommunicated" (a view still held by many), but now it is being encouraged to enter into dialogue with Rome. The Bishop explained why he was cautious about this sudden "volte face".

Firstly, there was Rome's treatment of the various traditionalist societies (notably the Society of St Peter and Una Voce), that operate under the provisions in the decree "Ecclesia Dei Afflicta" (1988). In 1999, some priests of the Society of St Peter were invited by their local bishops to concelebrate with them at the Mass of the Chrism on Maundy Thursday. Sixteen St Peter's priests complied, in defiance of the wishes of their, then, Superior, Father Bisig. Fr Bisig consequently reprimanded the sixteen. The bishops complained about this to the Vatican, eliciting a Protocol that clarified the situation. The Indult to say the Old Mass did not remove any priest's right to say the new, nor can any Superior prevent him from doing so.

This must be seen against a background of the dismissals of St Peter's seminary professors who were openly critical of the Novus Ordo. The Bishop reported the words of Cardinal Castrillon in the course of the meeting they had on 29 December 2000. The Cardinal made it clear that he had nothing against priests who want to say the old Mass. "What I cannot accept is that someone should write against the new Mass, as Father Bisig did. That is why, when I heard about it, I said that Father Bisig cannot be Superior General." The Cardinal had also dismissed the two Superiors of the seminaries of St Peter.

His Lordship then outlined Cardinal Castrillon's announcement, in a letter to the President of Una Voce, Mr Michael Davies, that the "Indult" priests would now have to adopt the 1965 rubrics, involving a radical modification of the ceremonies of the Mass, the introduction of bidding prayers, the suppression of the Last Gospel and the introduction of new liturgical calendar. Indirectly, the Cardinal implied that it is henceforth prohibited for a priest to refuse Communion in the hand at an Indult Mass. The Cardinal also added that the condition imposed upon those asking permission for the old Mass was that they should have nothing to do with those who question the legitimacy or orthodoxy of the new.

In view of these events, the Bishop was surprised to receive an invitation to meet Cardinal Castrillon, but surmised that some difference has been made by the Holy Year Pilgrimage to Rome in 2000, during which certain prelates realised the absurdity of regarding the SSPX as "non-Catholic". Moreover, Msgr Perle has indicated that Rome's attitude towards the Society subverted its ecumenical approach toward the Orthodox and the Protestants.

His Lordship then summarized the content of his meeting with Cardinal Castrillon on 29 December 2000, during which the Cardinal suggested a personal prelature for the Society (like Opus Dei). Bishop Fellay said that if the Society were to enter into such an arrangement, it would still be obliged to fight against modernism, liberalism and Freemasonry. He also raised the recent treatment of the Society of St Peter as a reason for not trusting the Vatican, and its official policy of not attempting to convert the Old Catholics or the Orthodox.

The Bishop also gave an account of his five-minute meeting with the Pope, in which the latter expressed his happiness about the negotiations.

On his return from Rome, Bishop Fellay called a meeting with all the traditional Catholic bishops (including Bishop Rangel). It was decided that the bishops should request the lifting of the (false) excommunication, and permission for all priests, throughout the world to say the old Mass. This would remove the pretence that the old Mass had been abrogated, make it very difficult (if not impossible) to abrogate it in the future and would cause many graces to flow into the Church because of the increased celebration of the old rite. The answer from Rome to this request was that "Basically, the Pope does agree that the old Mass has never been abrogated and that all priests have the right to say it" but the request was refused because some of the older secretaries (of the Curia) "think that it would be an insult to Pope Paul VI and all the work that has been done for the new liturgy."

In this reply, Rome signalled that it was not prepared to defend the old Mass and so, Bishop Fellay decided to suspend further discussions.

The Bishop contextualized his refusal to continue the current negotiations with Rome, by giving recent instances of how far the Vatican's policies are removed from Catholic tradition. It has permitted intercommunion between the Catholic and non-Catholic Church who use the Chaldean Rite in Iraq (heedless of the fact that one of the masses used by the non-Catholic part has no words of consecration). He went on to give an account of the extraordinary arrangements that were made for the latest Inter-Faith meeting at Assisi, where the Zoroastrians demanded a room with windows in which they could light a fire. The Moslems needed a room facing Mecca and the Jews required a room that had never been blessed. Even more horrifyingly, all the crucifixes in the convent were either removed or covered up. As Bishop Fellay observed: "Remove the essential, remove the truth and then it's possible for all the errors to meet together."

His Lordship spoke about the response on the part of the Vatican, and especially Cardinal Ratzinger, to the Society's recent book, criticizing the new Mass. The Bishop identified the opposition to the book as arising from a different understanding of the notion of "sacrifice". For Cardinal Ratzinger, to judge from a conference he gave at Faucombault last year, sacrifice means "to become better", a view based on the modern idea that sin cannot affect God, it only affects us, hence the punishment is the sin itself.

At the beginning of April, Cardinal Castrillon wrote to Bishop Fellay to say: firstly, the Pope is infallible; secondly, one may not judge the Pope; thirdly, "you are wrong" and fourthly, "I am convinced that many people in the Society have lost faith in the infallibility of the Pope."

The Bishop here reminded the audience, in terms of Pope Pius IX's "Pastor Aeternus", of the Church's teaching on Papal Infallibility which was there to conserve and faithfully transmit the deposit of faith that has always been taught by the Church.

Despite the breakdown in the discussions with Cardinal Castrillon, Cardinal Ratzinger has invited Bishop Fellay to doctrinal discussions. Although the Bishop felt that these might be more interesting, there would still be the difficulty of using words like 'truth', 'infallibility' and so on, that have come to mean different things for those in today's Vatican.

Bishop Fellay concluded his talk on a note of cautious optimism. There are today many younger priests desirous of saying the traditional Mass and questioning many aspects of Vatican II. In France, the Bishop of Poitiers reported that he had twelve young priests who wish to say the old Mass, and in France as a whole a petition from over three hundred and twenty diocesan priests have made a similar request.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: bishopfellay; catholic; catholiclist; ling; rome; sspx
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last
This is an interesting article which summarizes Bishop Fellay's reasons for not coming back into full communion with the Church.
1 posted on 07/10/2002 2:43:22 PM PDT by FBDinNJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: FBDinNJ
Those of us, orthodox and still in the Church under Rome,
share our prayers for the Church in its current trials.
2 posted on 07/10/2002 2:48:13 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
May the power of the Holy Spirit bring our separated brothers back into full communion with the true church.
3 posted on 07/10/2002 4:10:14 PM PDT by Gophack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: FBDinNJ
Thanks for the post. I would love to see the text of the letter from Card. Castrillon. If it is as reported, it is a gross misrepresentation of the Doctrine of Infallibility.
4 posted on 07/10/2002 4:22:13 PM PDT by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FBDinNJ
This would remove the pretence that the old Mass had been abrogated, make it very difficult (if not impossible) to abrogate it in the future and would cause many graces to flow into the Church because of the increased celebration of the old rite. The answer from Rome to this request was that "Basically, the Pope does agree that the old Mass has never been abrogated and that all priests have the right to say it" but the request was refused...."

In France, the Bishop of Poitiers reported that he had twelve young priests who wish to say the old Mass, and in France as a whole a petition from over three hundred and twenty diocesan priests have made a similar request.

The Pope apparently believes that all these priests already have the right to say the Traditional Roman Catholic Mass, but he refuses to publicly say so.

We must pray that the truth becomes known.

5 posted on 07/10/2002 6:40:05 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: tiki; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...
Ping.
7 posted on 07/10/2002 7:28:47 PM PDT by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: theotokos
Amen!
8 posted on 07/10/2002 7:41:10 PM PDT by american colleen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
The Pope apparently believes that all these priests already have the right to say the Traditional Roman Catholic Mass, but he refuses to publicly say so.

This does appear to be the case. Have any idea why JPII doesn't "go public?"

9 posted on 07/10/2002 7:42:21 PM PDT by american colleen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: american colleen
Question from a non-RC who hasn't followed this controversy...

Should JPII approve the saying of the Traditional Roman Catholic Mass, what would be the impact on the American Church?
10 posted on 07/10/2002 7:46:17 PM PDT by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: drstevej
Actually, the indult Masses in Latin are approved and they are offered validly in the U.S., although with some resistance and little official support in some places.
What would happen? I think Mass attendance would go up where it was so offered. Such parishes would undergo growth and would thrive.
11 posted on 07/10/2002 7:56:03 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: drstevej
For additional info., check out:

http://www.unavoce.org

12 posted on 07/10/2002 7:58:04 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Thanks.
13 posted on 07/10/2002 8:02:57 PM PDT by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: drstevej
Any time. God Bless.
14 posted on 07/10/2002 8:04:32 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: FBDinNJ
Praying for a Church reunion with the SSPX. I'd certainly rather have you folks aboard than our "Call to Action" Catholic liberals.
15 posted on 07/10/2002 8:07:36 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Oh I'm not a member of the SSPX. I do, however, attend an Indult mass and I'm interested in seeing the SSPX being fully brought back into the fold of the Church.
16 posted on 07/10/2002 8:10:13 PM PDT by FBDinNJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FBDinNJ
They need to figure out a theological way to come to terms with the council and papal authority. It would probably help greatly to further discussions between SSPX people and the many orthodox Catholics (who also like the Latin Mass,
as I do) who have remained within the institutional Church in America. I believe there is a reason why God has allowed the postconciliar tribulations. Things will get better in the long run.
17 posted on 07/10/2002 8:17:29 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: theotokos
quasi-Protestant principles,

Those 3 words say a lot.

18 posted on 07/10/2002 8:18:42 PM PDT by tiki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: drstevej
Should JPII approve the saying of the Traditional Roman Catholic Mass, what would be the impact on the American Church?

To paraphrase from the movie Die Hard:

Excuse me, sir! But what about the body that fell from the window?

Who knows? Probably some liturgist who got depressed.


19 posted on 07/10/2002 8:19:43 PM PDT by Evangelium Vitae
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Evangelium Vitae
Actually there are modernist liberals who get rather hysterical if you merely mention Latin.
20 posted on 07/10/2002 8:22:55 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson