Russian Orthodox Post Statement on Proselytism (Kasper again)

Inside the Vatican News email ^ | July 1 2002 | Robert Moynihan

[narses]

The Russian Orthodox Church has published a "white paper" explaining in detail the cases of "proselytism" it says the Catholic Church has engaged in in Russia

MOSCOW, July 1, 2002 -- In a move that could signal the possibility of renewed dialogue in the extremely chilly relationship between the Russian Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches, the Russian Orthodox Church has posted on its website a "white paper" listing in detail the cases when, according to the Orthodox, the Catholic Church has attempted to "proselytize" those who the Orthodox consider members of their own flock.

As we await further details of the contents of the "white paper" -- currently available only in Russian -- we note the two possible reactions to this document: (1) negative (2) positive

We tend to see the publication as positive. Here's why. Though this document could seem a negative sign, in that it details a series of "offenses" the Orthodox claimed have harmed their Church and people, leading some on the Catholic side to feel they are being unjustly accused, we think the positive aspect of this publication is likely to outweigh any negative effect.

For many months, spokesmen on the Catholic side have been asking the Orthodox to list concrete incidents of "proselytism" -- by which both sides mean "poaching" believers by enticing them from one Church into the other.

Now the Orthodox have done just that.

The Catholic archbishop in Moscow, Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz, who is a Russian citizen from Belarus and who enjoys Pope John Paul II's trust, has asked the Orthodox on several occasions to "show us the cases of proselytism; give us some examples."

Now the Orthodox have done that.

Kondrusiewicz has argued that Catholics in Russia do not "proselytize" the Orthodox, but do instruct those who come to Catholic churches seeking instruction. (The Orthodox have argued that the proper thing for the Catholics to do in such cases is to send those seekers who are ethnically Russian to Orthodox priests for instruction.)

Thus, the publication of such a "bill of particulars" is the "sine qua non" ("without which nothing") for renewed discussion toward an eventual resolution of this problem. Cardinal Walter Kasper has told "Inside the Vatican" that in February he has prepared a draft agreement to settle the alleged "proselytism problem."

He said that Pope John Paul II had given his approval to that draft agreement in a special meeting. But Kasper was unable to present that proposed agreement to the Orthodox because his planned February trip to Moscow was canceled by the Orthodox, after the Vatican created four Catholic dioceses in Russia, a move the Orthodox say they had not expected and was "unfriendly -- a declaration of war," as one Orthodox spokesman told "Inside the Vatican."

Now that this Orthodox document has been published, we will have to see if a Vatican response follows. It seems likely that, unless the Orthodox and the Catholics are unwilling to meet to thrash out their differences, there will have to be a meeting to hammer out an understanding on what constitutes acceptable and what constitutes unacceptable missionary behavior in Russia.

If such a meeting is held and an agreemment is worked out, perhaps on the basis of the draft in Kasper's possession, relations between the two Churches might improve to the point of an invitation from the Orthodox to Pope John Paul II to visit Russia. (In the past, the Orthodox have said the great obstacle to better relations is the "proselytism issue.")

It is in this sense that we see the unexpected publication of this document as a hopeful sign.

[narses]

Ping

[livius]

Very interesting. I wonder how much longer Islam is going to give us to fight with each other...

[sinkspur]

Kondrusiewicz has argued that Catholics in Russia do not "proselytize" the Orthodox, but do instruct those who come to Catholic churches seeking instruction. (The Orthodox have argued that the proper thing for the Catholics to do in such cases is to send those seekers who are ethnically Russian to Orthodox priests for instruction.)

If the Orthodox wanted to be instructed by the Orthodox, wouldn't they go to the Orthodox Churches?

Why are the Orthodox going to Catholic Churches?

I don't get it.

[MarMema]

Triumph of Faith FYI - a documentary of a pilgrimage in Russia made each year from Vyatka. The pilgrims walk 120 miles with only short rests and take young children. They sleep in the rain and eat little. It is an ascetic pilgrimage and I find it inspiring to watch. The pilgrims stop at the ruins of old Orthodox churches along the way. They show photos of the churches as they used to look. Older women tell of the communists coming and closing down the churches.
The pilgrimage is to a site in Russia where an icon of St. Nicholas was found in about 1300. There is some superstition and an occasional question that makes one wince but it has not stopped me from enjoying this movie over and over and over again.

I have watched it many, many times since ordering it. I am ordering some copies for people at church and thought I would tell you all about it too. Let me know if you like it. Please pass the info on if you think someone else might like this movie.

[MarMema]

please see my post just above which I meant to ping you all to.

[big'ol_freeper]

Um....aren't Christians supposed to evangelize? Show me a Christian denomination that does not evangelize and you will show me one that has violated the New Testament mandate to "go and make disciples of all nations".

[The_Reader_David]

There is a difference between evangelizing--bringing the Gospel to those who have not heard it--and proselytizing--trying to turn Christians from the Gospel they have already embraced to a different version.

It is not just the Vatican which is offensive, but all Western Christians who come to Orthodox lands trying to "Christianize" those who are already Christian because they don't embrace the proselytizer's version of the faith.

St. Peter the Aleut pray for us. (St. Peter, the second American Orthodox martyr died at the hands of Latin priests in what is now California for refusing to turn from Holy Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism.)

[big'ol_freeper]

I would disagree on this basis. If you believe in any particular "brand" of Christianity as THE true faith then it is your responsibility to share that faith with everyone that you possibly can. To do otherwise would be neglecting Christ's mandate and leave others with an incomplete faith even if they are Christians. I don't say this to belittle any particular Christian faith. I am saying ALL Christians are called to do this. "Test everything and accept that which is good". If you have Truth on your side you have nothing to fear.

[Stavka2]

Yes but when these people spread lies like, and yes I've heard it for myself: that Orthodox are not the first Christian church but Baptists are because John the Baptist was called Baptist or that Orthodox are cannables who really believe in eating the Flesh of Christ...and these are but the milder version of some of the garbage they spew. No wonder they get kicked out and not just from Russia but other countries like Germany.

[big'ol_freeper]

I know. I am Catholic and have heard those myself and many more (as I am sure you have). But you should not despair at that because it pushes you to explore and deepen your faith and gives you the opportunity to correct another person's errors. Maybe I just look at it differently but I welcome anyone coming to tell me about their faith. It gives me an opportunity to tell them about mine.

More than any group though I feel closer to the Orthodox in their suffering. I know many Orthodox and know what great beauty there is in the Divine Liturgy....it is truly glorious!! We share so much and are separated by so few things. We share a direct line to the Apostles in Apostolic Succession. We will be one someday even if its in the Resurrection. I look forward to sharing the Eucharist with you at that time!!

[The_Reader_David]

And that is precisely why proselytization in Russia is so offensive to the Holy Orthodox Church. Very simply, we are the Church, and we do not need either Latins sent by Rome or protestants sent by the Bible college down the street to tell us how to be Christians.

[ELS]

And what do you think should become of Catholics in Russia? Should the Vatican leave them to the Orthodox to "proselytize"? Why shouldn't the Catholic Church tend to its sheep in Russia?

[big'ol_freeper]

The Orthodox should do as they wish. If they wish to try to convert Catholics then they should do it. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Its not like any church "owns" the people who belong to it. Each person should have the freedom to choose what they believe and nobody should deny them access to information about different faiths that would prevent them from making what is ultimately a very personal and important decision.

[Stavka2]

Thank you, that was a very nice thing to say.

[Conservative til I die]

Actually, from the article, it appears the Orthodox do believe they own the people. At least, specifically, ehtnic Russians, who apparently have no choice on which religion they are allowed to follow.

Nationalistic and fascist, IMO.

[FormerLib]

If the Orthodox wanted to be instructed by the Orthodox, wouldn't they go to the Orthodox Churches?

Because, oddly enough, the Roman Catholic Church is Russian look like Orthodox Churches, complete with onion domes and absent names such as "Sacred Heart" or "Our Lady..."

[Conservative til I die]

Oh please. Can you be anymore ridiculous? Maybe you can bulldoze the onion-shaped Catholic churches for daring to replicate the architecture that the Orthodox rightfully owns.