Would you be upset if God saved all mankind?

Myself as source | 6/29/2002 | Tony N.

[Tony N.]

If God ended up saving all mankind in the end, would you be upset?

If upset, why?

I'm new here and so would like to introduce myself with the above question.

[Some hope remaining.]

You'd probably get more responses on a weekday but I'll bump it and add a couple comments.

One thought that comes to mind is that those who would be upset might want to consider the story of the laborers in the vineyard in Matthew 20.

Another thought is that it may depend on what you mean by saving everyone. I believe that the resurrection of Christ has saved all mankind from death but that doesn't mean they all receive the same reward.

[xzins]

Who can argue with God?

Tour hypothetical leads me to assume that God would be wanting to do this. (According to the bible, that won't happen.)

However, given your hypothetical, who am I to be mad at God?

[drstevej]

Welcome, Tony.

Being upset at God for any purpose is unwise. So the answer generically is no. With regard to your specific hypothetical, it does presume a situation contrary to what God has revealed in the Bible. If God saves all, I've been reading the wrong Book!

[winstonchurchill]

Nope, I wouldn't be upset. Surprised, but not upset. I am not one of those (there are many here) who believe that God takes any enjoyment whatever that any of His created beings are lost. [Nor do I take such enjoyment.] He has made provision for up to all to be saved. Unfortunately, I just don't see any evidence that all are meeting His clearly disclosed terms.

Moreover, from my own personal perspective, I don't feel I am 'giving up' anything to be a Christian. I believe that Christ offers Life in two perspectives: Life Eternal in the life to come and Life Abundant in this life. Thus, even if I were to learn tomorrow that God was going to save everyone no matter what decisions they made or how they lived their lives, I like to think I would continue to live precisely the way I live today, because life in Christ offers the best possible life here without regard to the life to come.

[Hank Kerchief]

He did?

Nevertheless, even though all those who are drowning are pulled from the deep by the mercy of rescuers, there is nothing to prevent them from jumping back into the merciless see from which they have just escaped.

What would "saved against your will," mean? If men choose not to be reconciled with God, can He "save" them against their will without eliminating their ability to choose. I think the question is a mistake.

Hank

[Jemian]

Not upset.

Just surprised.

[Aliska]

I'd be a little upset and that is immature. In eternity, there are some people I don't want to be around unless they are made clean and would never repeat their eartlhly evil acts. If I knew what they had been, I wouldn't be comfortable around them (certain types).

[RnMomof7]

That is Gods decision..the Bible answers your question it says "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" Gods decision... NOMB

[medved]

If God ended up saving all mankind in the end, would you be upset?

Including evolutionists??

[sinkspur]

Thus, even if I were to learn tomorrow that God was going to save everyone no matter what decisions they made or how they lived their lives, I like to think I would continue to live precisely the way I live today, because life in Christ offers the best possible life here without regard to the life to come.

This deserves to be repeated. Life in Christ RIGHT NOW is the most fulfilling way to live.

[Notforprophet]

Based on current court decisions, I'd have to ask God if He thought His own existence was unConstitutional.

Then I'd applaud Him for His very Marxist decision to include everyone, regardless of merit.

Notforprophet

[VietVet]

Interesting question, and some interesting replies.

It does seem to turn on what one means by the term "saved." In my religious upbringing, that meant having accepted that one's life was going off in the wrong direction, resolving to change that, realizing that one could not do so alone, and asking God's grace to forgive our sins and lead us away from future sins. We were taught that God, in His mercy, would do so, if our repentance were sincere, and we did not fall away from our resolve to conform our will to His. Salvation, then, required an act of will on our part, and Damnation was our own fault, a case of God saying, "All right, have it your own way, then," rather than "you miserable sinner, you go to ..."

From that perspective, your question raises certain problems for merely human understanding. How can God save someone who doesn't recognise that he is sinning? Or save a sinner who doesn't want to be led away from temptation? Saving a soul certainly involves making a great many changes in that person, changes that go to the very basis of his personality: making him unselfish instead of selfish; self-disciplined instead of self-indulgent; loving instead of hating, and so on. Can God do that to a person without their wanting it? Well, sure; He is omnipotent. Would He? Think carefully. Does God want converts, or will He be satisfied with reprogramed robots?

As to whether I would be upset ... I note that the workers in the vinyard who had worked the full day and did not get any more pay than those who had worked an hour *were* upset, although clearly the point of the parable was that they should not be. How do you think they would have reacted if the owner of the vinyard had gone back to the place where the day-workers were waiting and paid everyone there a day's wages, whether they had actually come to work or not? I am afraid I am no better than they were portrayed as being.

VietVet

[Tony N.]

Dear VietVet and all who have posted to this link: Thank you for your kind and thoughtful replies.

Now I'd like to continue the conversation with another question which is: Can we outlove God?

God tells us to love thy neighbor as thyself. Is God willing to love all mankind AS Himself? Has He done this? Will He do this? Will He continue to do this? The Bible says that love never gives up (1Cor.13), and that "God is Love."

Also, God tells us "Love thy enemies." Is God unwilling to do that which He requires of us?

Is it loving to eternally torture, in flames, your enemies?

I remember also reading in 1Corinthians 13 that love seeks the highest good.

It is my firm belief and that of the Scriptures that God will continue to love all humanity and will continue to seek their highest good and never give up on them. That's what unconditional love does, you know. Otherwise, God is not Love.

[William Terrell]

Your question indicates you may be upset if God saves only a portion of mankind. If so, why?

[foolish-one]

Welcome and excellent first post. As with many others here - not upset but certainly surprised. Maybe pleasantly so. My question to you is: Would you be upset if He didn't save all of mankind?

[rising tide]

I think most people will be overwhelmed with love and gratitude toward our Heavenly Father. I beleave all mankind will be amazed at his perfect balance of justice and mercy. There will be no room emotionaly for disapointment. Even the wicked will have to admit He is filled with mercy and justice. It will be imposable not to honor Him so evident is his greatness.

[VietVet]

"Is it loving to eternally torture, in flames, your enemies?"

First, recall that, according to the doctrines of salvation/damnation which I was taught, God does not send a sinner to Hell, like a judge sending a criminal to jail. Instead, the sinner goes to Hell on his own, because he will not follow God to Heaven.

Second, to paraphrase C.S. Lewis, the tongues of fire, the visible symbol of God's grace, which touched the Apostles on Pentecost, were the same as the flames of Hell. That is to say, that the worst punishment that the sinner receives after death is the sure and certain knowlege that he was *wrong*; that his pride and wrath and envy and lust for physical pleasure were puny and dispicable things compared to the virtues he was too lazy or fearful to cultivate. And now it is too late for him...

Or is it? I fear that the issue of the possiblility of the redemption of sinners even after their deaths is another of those questions which pass my understanding. VietVet

[Tony N.]

William Terrell wrote
Your question indicates you may be upset if God saves only a portion of mankind. If so, why?

Tony's reply:
Actually that is a great question. In the beginning God will save only a portion of mankind as 1Tim.4:10 states when it says He is the Saviour "especially" of believers." But happily, the word "especially believers" does not mean "only believers." He is the Saviour of both groups and a Saviour is one Who saves.
To directly answer your question, though, yes, I would be upset if God did not save all mankind because this would mean that even though Christ died for the sins of all mankind that in the end God didn't see that as being good enough.

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foolish-one wrote:[/b]
To: Tony N.

Welcome and excellent first post. As with many others here - not upset but certainly surprised. Maybe pleasantly so. My question to you is: Would you be upset if He didn't save all of mankind?

Tony's reply:
Not at first for I know that the rest will be coming along in due time (Romans 5:18,19; 1Cor.15:22-28; 1Tim.2:4-6).

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rising tide wrote:
To: Tony N.

I think most people will be overwhelmed with love and gratitude toward our Heavenly Father. I beleave all mankind will be amazed at his perfect balance of justice and mercy. There will be no room emotionaly for disapointment. Even the wicked will have to admit He is filled with mercy and justice. It will be imposable not to honor Him so evident is his greatness.

Tony's reply:
Those are very nice thoughts indeed. Yes, I agree that they will all be amazed at His perfect balance of justice and mercy. It is nice to know that justice meets out a sentence which fits the crime and that no crime merits eternal torture. Especially when Christ has died for all mankind's sins.

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VietVet wrote
To: Tony N.

"Is it loving to eternally torture, in flames, your enemies?"

First, recall that, according to the doctrines of salvation/damnation which I was taught, God does not send a sinner to Hell, like a judge sending a criminal to jail. Instead, the sinner goes to Hell on his own, because he will not follow God to Heaven.

Tony's reply:
Dear brother, I am curious as to why you say the above. Did not God, before He ever made mankind, know well in advance that "all [would] avoid Him" and that "not one [would be] seeking out God" and "together they [would be] useless"? (see Romans 3). Since God knows the end from the beginning, and since man was created flesh, didn't God know in advance that this making him flesh was sealing his fate, especially when the Scriptures state that "the flesh is not able to please God" (see Rom.8:5-8)?
And how is it that mankind sends themselves to "hell"? Did not God know in advance that if He made man soulish (and He did (see 1Cor.15:45,46 p.s. the word "natural" should be "soulish")) that man would not be able to receive those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them" (see 1Cor.2:14)?
So why would God make mankind so that mankind would send himself to "hell"? Surely God knew before He ever created the heavens and earth and mankind that should He creat mankind out of flesh and make him soulish what the results would be. The reason was so God could send a Saviour to save mankind out of this situation of being sinning, dying soulish critters such as we are.

VietVet wrote:
Or is it? I fear that the issue of the possiblility of the redemption of sinners even after their deaths is another of those questions which pass my understanding. VietVet

Tony's reply:
First of all I want to say that I appreciate where you are coming from (not meaning to talk down to you bro).