THE WAR IN HEAVEN

RON'S LDS WORLD ^

[Illbay]

...that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Yet another reason for you to beware, Elsie!

[Illbay]

"Babylon" has always been used as a referent for the wickedness of the world. So therefore, the "King of Babylon" is....Lucifer, or Satan.

FWIW, I do not believe you will find any HISTORICAL reference to an actual, human king of the LITERAL Babylon named "Lucifer" or any variant of the name.

[Illbay]

Elsie, it really isn't necessary to post multiple chapters of the Bible.

As a suggestion, perhaps you can either just give the references, or link to the text on another site (as we LDS often do to scriptures.lds.org).

It would be one thing if you were providing some sort of running commentary, but all you do is post page after page of text that is available elsewhere.

I suggest this not to be petty, but because it really IS difficult to navigate through all that text.

[Illbay]

These two creeds summarize the beliefs of the orthodox Christian faith. Faiths that do not profess the beliefs in them -- while doubtlessly full of good, moral, loving people - are not Christian.

First you say "these creed summarize the beliefs of the ORTHODOX Christians," then you say that anyone who doesn't profess them aren't Chrsitians, period.

You leave out a middle ground: the UNORTHODOX Christian. We LDS are "Christian" in the sense that we believe that Christ is the very Son of God, the Eternal Father. We believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

However, we regard the Trinity as a "mass of confusion", and a false doctrine.

Therefore, we are CHRISTIANS but we are not Orthodox (by any means). We are a restoration of the original Gospel of Jesus Christ that was lost through apostasy, the darkness of which spawned such convoluted and confusing "doctrines" as contained in those creeds.

That said, I really don't care what you call us. I am much more concerned about what the Savior Jesus Christ is going to call us.

[vmatt]

well Elsie, I always thought that too, but there are some who question that since Lucifer was only mention a few times that he is not the same.

Lucifer is mentioned a single time within scripture. God bless all who seek the truth.

[vmatt]

Now I can say I've heard your version of the matter.

Once your mind glimpsed the facts within the scripture I have shown you saw the truth. From there it is between you and God. God bless you and yours.

[restornu]

For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord.

- that the whole polygamy thing would have NEVER have gotten started!

Plural marriage is biblical when it is done under God's Command, and those who practice it keep the Lord's Commandments- as you read in Mosaih -he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. He was an apostate!

Gen.30
(these plural marriages were blessed by the Lord) 1.Jacob marries Bilhah and she bears Dan and Naphtali—

2.He marries Zilpah and she bears Gad and Asher—

3.Leah bears Issachar and Zebulun and a daughter, Dinah—

4.Then Rachel conceives and bears Joseph—Jacob works for Laban for wages of cattle and sheep.

So its not that plural marriage is not of God, for it is when God sancition it.

[B-Chan]

First you say "these creed summarize the beliefs of the ORTHODOX Christians,"then you say that anyone who doesn't profess them aren't Chrsitians, period.

Orthodox Christian = true Christian. By "orthodox" I mean "sharing in or adhering to" the traditional Creeds, not specifically the Eastern Orthodox Churches (which are orthodox). By definition,any "church" that is not orthodox in belief is outside the Christian religion, and thus not a church at all. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and most Protestant believers are orthodox in belief since they all profess the Creeds.

You leave out a middle ground: the UNORTHODOX Christian. We LDS are "Christian" in the sense that we believe that Christ is the very Son of God, the Eternal Father. We believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

But in a different Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Only the Trinity as described in the Creeds is the true Holy Trinity.

However, we regard the Trinity as a "mass of confusion", and a false doctrine. Therefore, we are CHRISTIANS but we are not Orthodox (by any means). We are a restoration of the original Gospel of Jesus Christ that was lost through apostasy, the darkness of which spawned such convoluted and confusing "doctrines" as contained in those creeds.

Obviously, I disagree, but I suspect there's no point in arguing about it.

That said, I really don't care what you call us. I am much more concerned about what the Savior Jesus Christ is going to call us.

"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." [2 Corinthians 11:4]

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up." [Galatians 1:8-11]

I truly don't wish to disparage you, Illbay, but the simple fact is that the LDS lies outside the bounds of Christian orthodoxy. You, of course, don't agree. Since no one's going to win this debate, why don't we just let this one drop?

B-chan

[vmatt]

"Babylon" has always been used as a referent for the wickedness of the world. So therefore, the "King of Babylon" is....Lucifer, or Satan.

Which babylonian king is Satan? Berodachbaladan? Nebuchadnezzar? Evilmerodach? Cyrus? Artaxerxes? "Evilmerodach" would be a better name for Satan than "brilliant star", wouldn't you say? No, Lucifer is not Satan brother you have simply been taught this. Take care and God bless.

[restornu]

(I guess the revealing didn't help THESE guys much!)

I don't understand your sarcasm?

1 Cor. 2: 14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Mosiah 3: 19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Did not Moses have trouble? Not ALL of the Israelites very obedient to the the Lord's Commandments?

You two are always unpleasant! Do you ever know how to play nice, I never was unkind to you and I enjoy to Discussing things, not Zaping things!

[restornu]

I'm sorry if you feel like you are attacked all the time, it's just that you are in the minority and by mere math you will be getting much more than you give.

I not attacked, it the my view are always distorted by pettiness and instead of reading,and thinking about what is being said.

Don't put words in my mouth and the war is still between Good and Evil, and to know who the players are.

[Illbay]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. This is why it is wonderful to have latter-day prophets. So much of the "mysteries" are cleared up with the man at the helm is talking to the Man at the Top.

[vmatt]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. This is why it is wonderful to have latter-day prophets. So much of the "mysteries" are cleared up with the man at the helm is talking to the Man at the Top.

Dear friend, if I thought for a single moment that you knew a "latter-day prophet" I would be on the next plane to meet such a one. Take care.

[Elsie]

I suggest this not to be petty, but because it really IS difficult to navigate through all that text.

No; it's not.

Just scroll down if you refuse to read it.

It is MUCH harder to look it up separately and that why I post it and why I will CONTINUE to post it!

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And, OTOH, if you want ME to read YOUR stuff, it had BETTER be on the screen, for I figure if I have to chase it down, the ideas expressed when I find it will probably not support what you claim for it.

[Elsie]

Thanks for answering a question I didn't ask.

[Elsie]

I not attacked, it the my view are always distorted by pettiness and instead of reading,and thinking about what is being said.

Don't put words in my mouth and the war is still between Good and Evil, and to know who the players are.

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How about if I just put your fingers on the keyboard?

What do you want to say here??

[Elsie]

You two are always unpleasant! Do you ever know how to play nice, I never was unkind to you and I enjoy to Discussing things, not Zaping things!

Let the sputtering begin!

[Elsie]

Lucifer is mentioned a single time within scripture. God bless all who seek the truth.

At least that is more than the words "rapture" and "trinity" can claim!

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(Electricity ain't in there either, but I believe in it!)

[Elsie]

You two are always unpleasant! Do you ever know how to play nice,

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#3

HMmmm....... This is NEWS to me.

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#4

Sorry...... they aren't MY relatives!

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#7

Sorry, but MY Noah is a righteous man!

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#15

I'm sorry if you feel like you are attacked all the time, it's just that you are in the minority and by mere math you will be getting much more than you give.

 

This statement was made: Most Christian churches believe that a war was fought in heaven between Lucifer and Michael, but they have no idea of who Lucifer was, how he came to have angels of his own, what the war was about, and how it was fought. - without ANY backup whatsoever. So I've tried to give some explanation. Obviously I've not done a good job.

Try this, then...........

Now..... is this a mere man, this King of Babylon?

 

Has he the ability to rise to the clouds and be like GOD?

 

I think not.

 

(Who is THIS Great King? David? Solomon? Agrippa?)

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#16

You know, I had a gut feeling that this wasn't right when I posted it. Thanks for clipping out the text for me.

(One question: What is ZIFF?)

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#18

One would think, after seeing THESE verses: ----- that the whole polygamy thing would have NEVER have gotten started!

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#19

(I guess the revealing didn't help THESE guys much!)

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Other than Scripture, the above are the sum TOTAL of things I've typed to you!

 

If  THESE offend you so much;

get to the Emergency Room for some hemophiliac medicine

because your skin is SO thin

you are going to bleed to death before our very eyes!

[restornu]

Your a pip!