Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: fogarty
Every mormon I've spoken with rejects the belief that salvation is received ONLY by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Sorry, but that's poppycock. Of course we believe that the Grace of Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.

But we don't pick and choose which scriptures we follow, as many sects of Christianity seem to do. We don't ignore the admonition of Christ, to keep His commandments.

We realize, though, that no matter how hard we try to do this, we're going to come up short, every time. And it is the grace of our Saviour Jesus Christ that makes up the deficit.

My own analogy is that of "tithing," which we Saints also observe to pay. Everything we have is the Lord's but He asks only that we pay 10% of our "increase" as tithing. We are NOT expected to give all we have, but He knows we can give SOMETHING, and thus His commandment that we pay 10%.

FWIW, the analogy is imperfect; I doubt that we can even keep 10% of the commandments, but the point is that we show a "good faith effort," trusting in the end that, after all we can do--which is the purpose of the Judgement, in fact--we are saved by the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

"And moreover, I say unto you, that there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent." -- (Book of Mormon) Mosiah 3:17.

111 posted on 06/19/2002 3:28:07 PM PDT by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies ]


To: Illbay
For the Christian it's not an organization but a Person who represents the gospel, and that Person is God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ. It is the life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ that embodies the gospel for the true Christian. Jesus is man's savior. The Bible tells us that JESUS is the only way to God the Father. (John 14:6)

By contrast, Brigham Young says: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . ." "He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven." So for the Mormon, Joseph Smith has become the savior.
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, 289. See also, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, 198-90. )

Volume One of Doctrines of Salvation says this about Joseph Smith: "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."

The Mormon church also teaches that all men will receive some degree of salvation and that there is no place known as hell. By incorporating this doctrine, they have attempted to undercut the explicit teachings of the Bible. Furthermore, the church teaches that it ALONE is the only hope for salvation. Bruce McConkie, the Mormon scholar, says this regarding salvation: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

So it appears very much to me that the Mormon church does not take biblically-based doctrine alone - they add to it, and therefore they do not subscribe to the truth given in John 14:6. But, given the Mormon belief in 'special revelation' by its elected prophets and apostles, Mormon doctrine can change through the years - so it is no suprise that new beliefs and requirements have been added as others have been removed.

128 posted on 06/19/2002 4:07:23 PM PDT by fogarty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]

To: Illbay
Sorry, but that's poppycock. Of course we believe that the Grace of Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.

Okay, you've just given a prime example of the deception or misdirection possible from a Mormon. Whether it's intentional or not, I don't know.

What I do know is that about the slipperiest son of a gun I have ever known, with regard to discussion of Jesus Christ, faith, and doctrine, was a Mormon. Like you, he spouted phrases that sounded exactly like evangelical, fundamental, Protestant, Bible-believing precepts. He threw out practically word-for-word hijackings of evangelical lingo, and presented himself as a genuine Christian, as it were a born again, blood-bought sinner, saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

It took effort, much effort to pin that rascal down and discover that, though the language was identical, the definitions were different. The meanings were changed. And I remember how purposely deceptive I thought that was. No, from what I could discern, he did not believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (and that alone!), but he deceptively postured as if he did, and used all the cunning, hijacked language to convince people he did!

But most of all what I remember is that I finally discovered the Jesus he spoke of was not the same Jesus of the Bible (though he would argue fiercely and piously that it was). The Mormon "God" is not the same God of the Bible either, for the God of the Bible did not originate as a man like me or you then later become a god (or rather, THE God), doesn't have dust in His veins, and the God of the Bible is in heaven, not some planet called "Kolob".

Another thing I remember about that Mormon rascal is that, as he had no compunction against manipulating or changing the scriptures to his own advantage to suit him, he had no compunction against using and manipulating people to his own gain or advantage. I suspect several women had restraining orders against him (I know personally how he dealt with and treated at least a couple).

I'm not saying all Mormons are like him, but from what I'm picking up on this thread, deceptive use of hijacked evangelical terms and language certainly is common to them!

Again, whether it is intentional or not (by the rank and file) I do not know.

149 posted on 06/19/2002 4:53:06 PM PDT by Risky Schemer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]

To: Illbay

Salvation........

Non Mormons attest:
Every mormon I've spoken with rejects the belief that salvation is received ONLY by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.


Mormons (this one, anyway) say:" Sorry, but that's poppycock. Of course we believe that the Grace of Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.

But we don't pick and choose which scriptures we follow, as many sects of Christianity seem to do. We don't ignore the admonition of Christ, to keep His commandments. (And those are... WHAT?)

We realize, though, that no matter how hard we try to do this, we're going to come up short, every time. And it is the grace of our Saviour Jesus Christ that makes up the deficit. Ahha!!! Then why DO anything at all?


We non-Mormons (who call ourselves Christians) claim that Christ is sufficient: no DEFICIT to be made up.

Or, to use an overused phrase: "What part of ONLY don't you understand?"


150 posted on 06/19/2002 4:54:13 PM PDT by Elsie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson