VIOLENCE IN THE KORAN AND THE BIBLE (very long, but, worthwile)

e-mail | 5/30/2002 | Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi

[lews]

Excellent commentary for those who have the patience to read it.

[Black Agnes]

ping!

[EggsAckley]

Good article. Lots of good quotables to throw at Pali sympathizers. Worthy of a bookmark.

[My Identity]

the issue is the teachings of the Koran which call for the suppression and extermination of those who practice a different religion. This is the root of the problem that needs to be addressed by Christians and the international community of nations.

[Pearls Before Swine]

Mohammed started by urging peace and tolerance, but as his worldly power grew, he urged war and intolerance. It appears yet another example of the saying "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

Mohammed started by urging peace and tolerance, but as his worldly power grew, he urged war and intolerance. It appears yet another example of the saying "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I think it's more an example of saying "Nice doggie" while reaching for a stick. Not a decent man corrupted by power, but a shrewd man holding back until he was powerful enough.

[FreeTally]

I think it's more an example of saying "Nice doggie" while reaching for a stick. Not a decent man corrupted by power, but a shrewd man holding back until he was powerful enough.

Sounds like most leaders and politicians today, and throughout history. Most seem like nice guys until they aquire the power to crush the opposition.

[Pearls Before Swine]

Re Mohammed's increasing belligerence with age, you wrote:
Not a decent man corrupted by power, but a shrewd man holding back until he was powerful enough.

I was trying to be nice. At a distance of 1400 or so years, no one will ever know. Maybe (probably) its as you said. On the other hand, he may have been insane and weak, but nicer, at the beginning. There's no doubt he became insane and nasty at the end, though.

[knighthawk]

THE TEACHING OF ISLAM FROM ITS PRIMARY SOURCES - THE QURAN AND HADITH

Very good:

Is Islam a peace-loving religion?

[VOA]

A most compelling proof that Muhammad taught his followers to advance the cause of
Allah by the use of the sword, is provided by the exampl
e of his immediate successors, known as Califs. They followed his intense
fanaticism in waging relentless wars of conquests against Christians, Jews, and pagans.

Can't give a citation, but my recollection is that Osama bin Laden's plan was
really to take control of Afghanistan, then drive into adjoining lands (especially former
parts of USSR), setting himself up as the Calif over his new territory (the califate, sp?).

I'll be back to check these articles in more depth.

[knighthawk]

It's called the Khilafah. The Ottoman empire was also viewed as a Khilafah.

[rdb3]

B²!

[VOA]

It's called the Khilafah.

Thanks very much for saving me future embarassment.
I should learn to never try to "wing it" phonetically when typing something I hear
on TV or radio!

[knighthawk]

Caliphate is also correct, but this referes more to the Ottoman empire. The Ottoman empire was regared as the last Khilafah. Osama and the Taliban also wanted to establish one in Afghanistan.

The Khilafah is the state of the Ummah (islamic community)

There are numerous websites about the Khilafah

www.islamic-state.org/khilafah
www.khilafah.org
www.khilafah.com
www.geocities.com/harkatulkhilafah
www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/english.html
www.ramadhan.org/1421/
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/

They even got a site here in the Netherlands:

http://www.expliciet.nl/

It contains also some links to international Khilafah movements. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/Belief/Khilafah/partI.html

Khilafah is the political system in Islam. It is responsible for implementing the Islamic system (be it social, economic, educational, foreign policy,...) and maintaining its implementation. It is also responsible for spreading the message of Islam to the world. Khilafah is the Islamic state which the Prophet (pbuh) sought to create and worked for in Mecca, for a period of thirteen years, until he (pbuh) established it Medina.

If you read some of the stuff on their sites, you can realize these people are dangerous and organized.

Also a while ago there was a picture of a European islamic cleric. On the background there was the black Khilafah flag.

A view on Jews and Israel from Khilafah.com

Also the www.muslimstudent.org.uk site is down, but here are two documents that were on their site:

The Islamic Personality

Also look at reply #9 for another 'leaflet' of that same site. TopQuark posted it as a seperate thread, but I can't find it anymore.

[xJones]

Thanks for the ping.

Why do Arab leaders prefer to finance refugee camps in the West Banks rather than inviting Palestinians to settle in their own countries? Why Arab countries don't follow the example of America who has given asylum to persecuted people of all races and creeds, including many Arabs? Why are Arab leaders more interested to take away some land from Israel?an extremely small country? than give some of their own land to their Palestinian Muslim brethren?

Well duh! They want the Israelis out and any peace treaty over there is just a Muslim joke. We all know that.

Ultimately the most compelling example of the difference between the teaching of the Koran and that of the Bible on the use of violence, is the unselfish and compassionate service offered by dedicated Christians even to Muslim terrorists.

True. It will take a lot of the Christian ideal of martyrdom, not the bomb-belt Islamic kind. The Muslims kill our missionaries. But the Muslims are living in darkness so terrible...

[FITZ]

Bump

[AmericanCheeseFood]

Ahh hokey, the Bible refers to leaders put in place by Him who can bring armies into play.

Islam just teaches hate.

Hmm.. tnx Knight!

[a_Turk]

In Turkish it's spelled Halife, in English the Caliphate or the Caliph as the Pope..

When faced with a crazed enemy like Usame bin Laden, we fight him in the name of God, whether we're Christians, Jews, or Muslims.

You've been posting articles which portray me as violent. I am violent when I am attacked. So is the USA violent when attacked. Others are conformist in the face of attack, and just bend over.. Not me.

Mohammed was attacked by the rulers of Mecca for preaching the old testament and promoting the God of Abraham. He escaped to Medina and later came back to route the Meccans. So has he routed all high priests of idol worship who opposed him for fear of losing their tax base. More power to him, he did great for 620 anno domini.

Nobody preach to me about conquest and cruelty 1300 years ago, that was the norm then, and only addressed early in the 20th century with the Geneva convention.. I don't constantly bring up how the crusaders ate the inhabitants of "Ma'arret an Numan" do I?

Anyway..

The directions given by the Prophet Mohammad were that leadership of the Muslims should pass from one Caliph (pope) to the next upon the death of the current Caliph to the person closest to him. Closest friend? Closest relative? The following was split right after his death into Shiite and Sunni.

Absolute powr corrupts absolutely. If you think that child rape by catholic priests is sensational news, maybe it is, but it's nothing compared to what used to be done centuries ago. Priests of all religions excercise a sort of absolute power over believers. Centuries ago even more adults were the equivalent of todays children. The level of maturity among adults has increased over the past centuries, more so in the European countries and in their colonies where the natives did not prevail, all thanks to protestant Christianity and the resultant competition in education/ communication. This never happened in that scale in the realm of Islam.

The level of maturity among adults in the lands of Islam is generally low, with very few exceptions. Turkish people, for example, have a much much higher level of education than the overall average.. That's why we have seperated church from state, and that's why our laws are refined versions of God's basic commandments.

Usame and the like are raping the ignorant public around them, just like some corrupt priests rape little kids elsewhere in the world, where they can't get their way with adults any longer.. That's it.

[TLBSHOW]

islam is a false religion as seen by this story. It is really a cult and terrorist.