[Bellarmine]

Regarding St. Bellarmine, I hope you won't accuse anyone who proposes that resisting an unlawful order by the pontiff can sometimes be justified of being an inane apostate anymore.

I don't think your statement that the canon has changed over time is specific enough. The Roman Canon was fixed at the time of Gregory the Great. It remained unchanged until Pope John XXIII inserted St. Joseph's name into the Canon, causing a great uproar. Of course now, the canon no longer exists. You can't have multiple canons, it denies the meaning of the word.

I have seen the Mass on EWTN, and I must say that I disagree with you. I do see it as a radical change. Aside from the smells and bells, and the Latin, it is no different from the most outlandish charismatic mass. I have attended very reverent Novus Ordo masses, even in Latin, and they depress me just as much as the worst Novus Ordo masses. As to what the mass will look like in 100 years, who knows?

[Catholicguy]

Regarding St. Bellarmine, I hope you won't accuse anyone who proposes that resisting an unlawful order by the pontiff can sometimes be justified of being an inane apostate anymore.

You appear to have a difficult time following my points. This has happened on this thread before. My comments, AGAIN, were directed specifically to the question as to whether a Pope can promulgate an invalid Mass

I don't think your statement that the canon has changed over time is specific enough. The Roman Canon was fixed at the time of Gregory the Great. It remained unchanged until Pope John XXIII inserted St. Joseph's name into the Canon, causing a great uproar. Of course now, the canon no longer exists. You can't have multiple canons, it denies the meaning of the word.

I will have to go and look it up but, yes, the Roman Canon has been changed frequently throughout history. Jungmann speaks of "thousands of changes" in the Liturgy but I don't have his book before me.

Of course you can have multiple canons - we have them now, and we have had them previously throughout the history of the Church.

I have seen the Mass on EWTN, and I must say that I disagree with you. I do see it as a radical change. Aside from the smells and bells, and the Latin, it is no different from the most outlandish charismatic mass. I have attended very reverent Novus Ordo masses, even in Latin, and they depress me just as much as the worst Novus Ordo masses. As to what the mass will look like in 100 years, who knows?

If a reverent Mass "depresses" you, then I suggest the problem isn't Liturgical