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To: Bellarmine
Regarding St. Bellarmine, I hope you won't accuse anyone who proposes that resisting an unlawful order by the pontiff can sometimes be justified of being an inane apostate anymore.

You appear to have a difficult time following my points. This has happened on this thread before. My comments, AGAIN, were directed specifically to the question as to whether a Pope can promulgate an invalid Mass

I don't think your statement that the canon has changed over time is specific enough. The Roman Canon was fixed at the time of Gregory the Great. It remained unchanged until Pope John XXIII inserted St. Joseph's name into the Canon, causing a great uproar. Of course now, the canon no longer exists. You can't have multiple canons, it denies the meaning of the word.

I will have to go and look it up but, yes, the Roman Canon has been changed frequently throughout history. Jungmann speaks of "thousands of changes" in the Liturgy but I don't have his book before me.

Of course you can have multiple canons - we have them now, and we have had them previously throughout the history of the Church.

I have seen the Mass on EWTN, and I must say that I disagree with you. I do see it as a radical change. Aside from the smells and bells, and the Latin, it is no different from the most outlandish charismatic mass. I have attended very reverent Novus Ordo masses, even in Latin, and they depress me just as much as the worst Novus Ordo masses. As to what the mass will look like in 100 years, who knows?

If a reverent Mass "depresses" you, then I suggest the problem isn't Liturgical

94 posted on 06/04/2002 3:22:08 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy; Bellarmine
Why did you once use "to drive 90 miles, one way, to St. Robert Bellarmine in Miami to attend the Indult Mass", if you consider the Novus Ordo Mass an equal replacement? A Novus Ordo Mass to be mandated worldwide, except for the very few, lucky parishoners whose bishops allow an Indult Mass, often to be offered under such strange sanctions as "every third Sunday".

I, personally, find even a "very reverent Novus Ordo mass", although licit and valid, inferior to the Tridentine Mass. I wish the cardinals, bishops and priests obeyed the Pope's "Eccelsia Dei" and made the Tridentine Mass more available to all those that yearn for it.

95 posted on 06/04/2002 4:27:30 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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