Posted on 05/27/2002 9:55:07 PM PDT by restornu
What does this mean in plain language CG ?
Correct, there is no scripture in the Bible except that one verse in Isaiah that uses the word Lucifer. Yet there is extra-biblical commentary in ancient Judahism, pre-nicene Christian writers, and ancient and contemporary traditions of the occult that claim Lucifer to be the name and title for Satan before his fallen state upon the earth.
This belief that Lucifer is a pre-fall name satan is directly linked to another belief, namely the pre-existence of souls or our spirit creation before the physical world was created. If a belief system denies the creation of us spiritually before be were born, then the name Lucifer was also erased except as a name for the earthly king in Babylon. This denial of a pre-existence has occurred twice, once among the Jews around 400 to 300 BC, and in the Catholic Church officially in the eleventh century.
Judahism up until the third century BC did believe in a pre-mortal existence of our spirits. At the time of Christ this was accredited as superstition by the Sanhedrin, though still a widespread superstition by Jews and gentiles alike. In the early Christian Church, from extra-biblical sources we find that a spiritual pre-existence was taught again. We find only small hints that such a belief of a pre-existence was not denied by Christ in scripture, and only hints that the disciples of Christ in the New Testament also believed in a pre-existence of our spirits before being born.
"Here then is eternal life- to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346, 347)
However God's Word says
Gen 3
4, "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5, "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
...Satan not only got man kicked out of the garden with this lie, but this lie is also preventing mormons from getting into heaven..
...Satan not only got man kicked out of the garden with this lie, but this lie is also preventing mormons from getting into heaven..
Indeed, Satan was such a good liar he even tricked God into saying the same thing.
Gen 3:22 -- And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ...
Amazing what reading the whole chapter can do, isn't it?
Let also stick to scripture and not discourses, as we have seen there are many discourse on FreeRepubic, even those they are nice to ponder its still not scripture.
The point of this is should that Lord has given man Freewill
The point of this is to Show that Lord has given man Freewill
"22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." (Gen. 3:22-24
So if Satan's lie was that Adam and Eve would become like the Gods knowing good and evil, then the devil also fooled God because God did declare that Adam and Eve did become "as one of us, to know good and evil."
This fact that Adam and Eve had become like Him required Adam to leave the garden for his sake, so that this knowledge would be used to develop faith in God, rather than faith in the devil.
The big lie was not that we become Gods, but that we can do it without Christ.
I know, and my point is that no matter what LDS says on "freewill" is irrelevent. If it's origin is misleading, then what does that say about all it's subsequent beliefs?
None taken, you asked how I justified linking them and I had to reply honestly.
there is no scripture connecting the name Lucifer with Satan yet most continue to believe this. Interesting.
Regarding the serpent relating to Christ, that which was killed was flesh and since man can kill the body but only God can kill the soul, the only thing that died was flesh, not Christ. That which Christ willingly sacrificed was Satan, the Devil, the Serpent and the carnal mind and that is how he overcame the devil by living in his flesh sinlessly as no man had ever and then becoming the perfect sacrifice for us, overcoming then nailing Satan to the cross as the serpent in the wilderness.
I don't get what you mean here. Are you equating our physical body with Satan?
We see the brazen serpent as symbolic of Christ in that those who looked to it lived, as those who look to Christ will gain eternal life. It was Christ that was nailed to the cross, his soul left his mortal, physical body and that body remained in the tomb until Christ took it up again as a perfected, immortal body. We belive in a litteral, physical resurection.
Seems pretty plain to me. It's a statement by Brigham Young that harmonizes perfectly with other statements by President Young that Latter-day Saints of today prefer to ignore or claim were poorly transcribed.
Adam and Eve, when they arrived in the Garden of Eden, were already resurrected beings capable of producing spirit children, but incapable of producing children with physical bodies until after the fall.
Bonus question: Who is the "us"?
I know the Book of Mormon is Scripture and it also strengthen my testimony in the plan of Heavenly Father.
That our parents needed to fall, for there was no sin until that happen they were in a state of eternity, and an until the sin, there would be no fall, nor repents, procreation, or redemption.
The was the plan or road that had to be followed in order to people the earth. Our parents had to leave the Garden of Eden or all would be frustrated.
2 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
Now you may want to belittle these words, and are satisfied swift cheese knowledge fine, there just might be folks who feel where is the rest of the story, and I pray that in some way will benefit for them.
The LDS never believe that we will be God the Heavenly Father. We will have attributes in abilities to do many things when the resurrection occurs, for it was always promised-
Matt.17
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children." -- Journal of Discourses, Remarks by President Brigham Young at a Special Conference held in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, August 28, 1852.
Now that is a stretch trying to change the meaning of Elohim which is plural and it didn't indicate a number like trinity.
Now the Holy Spirit has no body of flesh and Bone. You Believe that God the Father has no body, yet the Son has a resurrected body of Flesh and Bone.
1.So we have Holy Spirit which is a Spirit.
2. We have God the Father that you believe has no body of Flesh and Bone.
3.We have the Son of God who is in the image of his Father and has a body of Flesh and Bone and they are all of one mind.
Besides the Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Ghost; we have angels like Michael, Gabriel, Raphael etc that have become man and took on a temporal body.
You have an abridged portions of the scriptures and there is much more that will come forth in the earth and how will you be able to tell if it is of the Lord. How do you know the Bible is of the Lord. To make clear I do believe the Bible is of the Lord.
But how did you know it is of him?
Plus, you will never be any kind of god... It is by grace you are saved, not by works, lest any man should boast
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