Pope Saint Pius V's QUO PRIMUM-Apostolic Constitution Degree

Daily Catholic ^ | 00/00/00 | staff

[ventana]

(um, that is when it's not Peter, Paul and Mary).

[american colleen]

I might as well put in here, too, that I hate those stupid little "missalettes." I see no point in them: the responses are few enough to memorize in no time, and -- English being my first language -- I have no need to follow along in reading what I'm listening to. They are an anachronism that has lost its point -- we used Missals with the Latin Mass because we had to, and as I recall it the effect was an aid to concentration. (We also had a place to keep holy cards and prayer cards for the dead.)

Great point, and one that I agree with (of course!) - very few people use them in my parish - no need. I don't even see the little kids using them to learn the longer prayers that they don't yet know by heart. Bet it cost a lot every year to pay for something that most people don't use.

[Orual]

No Pope kind bind another Pope on matters of liturgical rubrics.

Therefore, no one whosoever is permitted to alter this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, precept, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.

Peter, Paul and God might disagree with you.

[american colleen]

The thing that I like the best is kneeling for the Eucharist.

I'd keep the modern Mass at our church and never complain again if they could just put the altar kneelers back in for communion. That is so huge. I'm starting to think that there was/is some kind of conspiracy to chip away at the real meaning of the Eucharist. Ripping out the altar rails was just another way to "normalize" receiving Jesus. (tin foil hat donned)

Else how is it that only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence?

[Domestic Church]

Thanks for posting the great link. I'm using Latin Christiana and English from the Roots Up in our home academy. I made my First Communion back when the Mass was still in Latin and I do miss it though I can see how the vernacular has helped many convert. I don't understand why both can't be accessible given that Latin is still the official language of the Church.

There is something you can do if you really want the latin Mass and here is the website:

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/suggest.htm

[maryz]

I'd keep the modern Mass at our church and never complain again if they could just put the altar kneelers back in for communion. That is so huge.

When I was in high school, we lived near the Lithuanian church, which we usually went to. They had the custom that, on going to the communion rail, people would kneel on the bottom (of two) steps for the "Ecce Agnus Dei" and "Domine, Non Sum Dignus," and then move to kneel on the upper step to receive. I've never seen it anywhere else.

Obviously, you would have loved it!

[Domestic Church]

I have a wonderful memories of my kids as preschoolers and toddlers curled up together & looking at our old St. Joseph Missal with the color pictures of Jesus and Mary and the Angels...it was a great way to introduce faith and we still use the prayers and litanies and info on the Saints. By the time my oldest was 5 she knew the colors of the liturgical year from the little circle chart in it.

[Aquinasfan]

The real point, of course, is the unsatisfactory nature of the new mass, which is lacking in beauty.

Agreed. Although one benefit of Latin, if you understand it, is that it reverses the Tower of Babel phenomenon. An understanding of Latin is certainly essential for the clergy.

Also, someone else mentioned turning the priest around. I agree with Cardinal Ratzinger who said that it was the biggest mistake in the VII liturgical changes.

[Domestic Church]

"I'm starting to think that there was/is some kind of conspiracy to chip away at the real meaning of the Eucharist. Ripping out the altar rails was just another way to "normalize" receiving Jesus. (tin foil hat donned) "

Take off your tin foil and sit down...there is an agenda...the evil one's agenda...and Antonio Gramsci wrote part of the game plan and Paulo Freire modified it. Hillary wrote her senior paper on it too.

[Aquinasfan]

Therefore, no one whosoever is permitted to alter this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, precept, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition.

It's my understanding that the addition of "except future popes" at the end is understood and therefore left out.

[Aquinasfan]

I might as well put in here, too, that I hate those stupid little "missalettes."

Me too. As an illustrator and graphic designer I despise them for artistic reasons as well.

First of all, the sans-serif Helvetica typeface is very cold and institutional. Good for road signs. Bad for inspiring feelings of reverence.

But worst of all is the covers. What's up with the bad 70's wood block prints of who knows what? They're like some kind of woodblock Rorschach test. They make me want to hurl. And then they're in the most insipid colors. Magenta and black. Green and black. Yuk!

We own the copyright to the greatest art in the history of mankind and this is the crap that we put on our missalettes? Give me a plain cover with gold text anyday. Puhleeeeez.

[GenXFreedomFighter]

I think Latin is beautiful, and I'm trying to learn it.

Me too! My parish sang certain parts of the liturgy in Latin during this past Lent, and that inspired me to try to learn Latin and begin going to Traditional Latin Masses twice a month. Growing up with a neutered, politically-correct liturgy has left me feeling cheated, so I'm glad for the chance to discover the Church as it was meant to be!

Those noun declensions are tough to master, eh?

[RobbyS]

Also, someone else mentioned turning the priest around. I agree with Cardinal Ratzinger who said that it was the biggest mistake in the VII liturgical changes. In retrospect, I agree. It makes the priest the center of attention. Before he was anonymous unless he happened to have a good singing voice.

[maryz]

It makes the priest the center of attention.

Right. And combine that with the effect of the vernacular -- too many priests feel they have the right to "freelance." I doubt that so many would try it in Latin (and in the old Mass, we wouldn't have had to hear it!).

[maryz]

I can't forget that the original lanuage of the Church was koine Greek,

From which, of course, the Kyrie survives. Who was it that wrote the piece on the old Mass that pointed out that it was like a beloved old home, with furniture and decorations from many different times, but all meaningful and, ultimately, all harmonious, assembled gradually with love.

[RobbyS]

Just a detail. The New English Bible is rather melodious especially when compared with the New American Bible. American English is deliberately flat, because it is so self-consciously "democratic."

[RobbyS]

Unfortunately, many churches have even eliminate that little bit of Greek. Ironically, "Kyrie Eleison" was a popular tune not too many years ago. The people are not as tone deaf as the priests seem to think!

[history_matters]

There is a wonderful hymnal called "Adoremus" and it is the brainchild of Fr. Fessio and others. Once you have it, there is really no need for the missalettes. You can really get the eco-crazies at their own game by calling for this hymnal to replace the missalettes "because the missalettes kill so many innocent trees"

The Adoremus Hymnal has the Novus Ordo in Latin and English in the front and then the best hymns in English and Latin. Ask your priest for it. (Skip the liturgist who is nothing but a terrorist anyway...)

The Anglican Use Roman Catholic parishes have a very beautiful liturgy in the most beautiful and reverent English. Their priests do not face the congregation but as they say "The Priest faces God". I just love that. Yes, I want a priest who faces God instead of posturing for his 'audience' .....

< / rant >

[maryz]

Ask your priest for it.

Would that be the same priest (relatively new to our parish) who leads singing in hymns of his choosing, who recently decided on a recessional which consisted of the words, "Open our eyes, Lord, we wanna see Jesus" over and over.

I fled (well, it was the recessional after all; I just receded fast). The memory of it still puts me in a gibbering state. If you want English hymns, what's wrong with "Be Thou My Vision"?

[history_matters]

maryz, may St. Catherine of Sienna intercede for you, and go talk to that priest! If we don't tell the priests, they think we love their every innovation. Maybe they won't change, maybe they'll get defensive, maybe they'll dig in their heels ... but so what ... at least they will know that not everyone is buying their shtick.