[editor-surveyor]

"The Bible teaches that this refers to those who God foreknew as believers. The Bible is consistent with this throughout the New Testament. It is a difficult distinction that many miss, so I must ask you....do you understand my point?"

xzins, I don't think that you understand your 'point.'

That verse makes it plain that there are some who were simply NOT ordained to be saved; do you understand that? - They weren't going to be saved no matter what. - Your point, which appears to be correct, makes you a Calvinist, have you figured that out yet?
Now go back and read P-Marlowe's double-talk in post #52 and see how his ideas differ from yours, and mine.

[xzins]

ES, I think you miss my point. I do understand what you are saying.

The Bible teaches that God predestinated those He FIRST foreknew. He foreknew those would choose to believe in Him. (He knew ahead of time those who would freely choose to believe in Him.) Then he predestinated (ordained) them to life. (In other words, he set in motion his foreknown plan.)

The result is that in this first REAL enactment of what God foreknew prior to setting it all in motion, we freely choose AND we can say that those who choose were predestinated by God's foreknowledge (ordination.)

I want you to understand our view of what the Bible teaches. I am not asking you to believe it. I simply ask if you understand it.