The Bible teaches that God predestinated those He FIRST foreknew. He foreknew those would choose to believe in Him. (He knew ahead of time those who would freely choose to believe in Him.) Then he predestinated (ordained) them to life. (In other words, he set in motion his foreknown plan.)
The result is that in this first REAL enactment of what God foreknew prior to setting it all in motion, we freely choose AND we can say that those who choose were predestinated by God's foreknowledge (ordination.)
I want you to understand our view of what the Bible teaches. I am not asking you to believe it. I simply ask if you understand it.
"He foreknew those would choose to believe in Him."
These two statements say significantly different things.
What does Romans 8:29 say?
God foreknew people?
or
God foreknew peoples choices?
The former is Biblical, while the latter adds words and thoughts not present in the text (but necessary for the arminian to deny biblical predestination).
In other words, foreknow (proginosko) means to know something before. What does the text say this something is? People? or People's choices? Since 'foreknow' is a verb in this verse, it cannot mean in and of itself 'to pre-know peoples choices'. Logically that is adding unknown words and thoughts to the text. Rather, it is the object of 'foreknow' that identifies what is foreknown. In the case of Romans 8:29 it is simply 'people' and not 'people's choices'. There's a big difference there. The text makes absolutley no hint regarding the choices of people. It simply says God foreknows people. PERIOD!
For example, in another passage of scripture which uses the word 'proginosko' -foreknow- Acts 26:5 -Paul is refering to the Jews who have known him 'for a long time' (NIV) or knew him 'from the beginning' (KJV). In either situation it is clear from the wording of the greek 'foreknew me from the first' that to 'foreknow me' in no way implies that the Jews 'foreknew' Pauls choices before hand. That's simply ludicrous.
Or take 1 Peter 1:19,20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
The KJV translates 'proginosko' here as 'foreordained'. According to your logic, then, only Christ's choices were foreordained!?!
The NASB translates this 'He was foreknown'. This, again, simply does not read that God only 'foreknew' Christ's thoughts.
Let's also look at
2 Peter 3:
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
What are we to know before? Choices? Or the things which Peter has outlined in the preceding verses?
Again, it's rather clear that 'foreknow' simply means to 'know before' or to 'pre-know'. There is nothing inherent in that word which precludes one to assume that what is 'foreknown' are only choices. Rather, what is 'foreknown' is identified by the object of the verb. And in the case of Romans 8:29 what does it say that God 'foreknew'? People? or People's choices?
This is basic logic, x. I know you don't like it, but it couldn't be more clear.
Jean
Why would it be necessary to predestine those that God already knew would choose Him?? Seems a bit redundant doesn't it.
That is all the LDS ask?
We Don't ask you to believe it or agree with a different point of understanding. Just to be respectful, I promise you in the Lords eyes it dose not take away of how you worship the Lord.
For did not Jesus command us, to Love One Another?
Xzins I am not picking on you, this coutesty is in general.