Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Freelancing here. But I've found useful the analogy of athletics and physical conditioning. Some successful pro athletes have had crappy diets. Jack Youngblood, the old Rams defensive end, used to pig out on McDonald's constantly. Keith Hernandez, the great Mets first baseman, used to chain smoke between innings. Does this mean that anyone who wants to be a pro athlete should follow their example? Because some people have great gifts, it doesn't mean that others shouldn't take advantage of every opportunity to maximize their own lesser gifts.
*blush*
Sacramental Christians believe that partaking of the sacraments is what Christians do. It is the fulfillment of God's will for how we should live as Christians.
Ok.
To turn it around, what if I ask you what would happen to your soul if you stopped being charitable? I would expect you to say that you wouldn't, because you have been born again. And that if you did, it would call in to question the initial authenticity of your belief.
If I had a true saving faith in Jesus Christ and for some reason I let sin enter my life and I became uncharitable I would still be on my way to Heaven, just with less rewards for when I get there.
My stopping being charitable would have no bearing whatsoever on my eternal destiny. What affect would not participating in the Sacraments have on your eternal destiny?
-Kevin
What, they didn't teach you these design principles at Carnegie-Mellon? ;o)
It's true! That's why Elaine broke up with him. And Jerry wouldn't help him move cause it was too soon in the relationship. ;-)
SD
No. And the guy has apparently patented the concept already. Damn!
SD
No, we don't. It sounds like our closest equivalent is the Sunday of Orthodoxy, early in Lent, when parishes and pastors from all jurisdictions gather at the same church and worship together.
Tonight, we celebrate the service of the Sacrament of Holy Unction. Tomorrow, a Liturgy and washing of each other's feet to celebrate the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper. Tomorrow night, the reading of the Passion Gospels. Great and Holy Friday begins a period of continual services and vigil in the Church, culminating with the Paschal Liturgy beginning just before midnight on Saturday.
Here we go with that "Once Saved Always Saved" stuff. ;-)
That's the difference. We believe our actions have a bearing on our future judgment.
SD
I believe this is the crux of the quote that you wish me to respond to. The moral law (ten commandments) did not become "optional" merely because they no longer had the power to comdemn the Christian. Likewise, there are certain "obligations" that we have still today. Saying that a believer "must" do good works is of a piece with saying they "must not" commit adultery. It is not a "preference" that God has.
It's just that the price for that disobedience is no longer eternal seperation from God in Hell.
You guys seem to be dancing around having to come out and say what would happen if you stopped participating in the Sacraments. Let me try. If one were to voluntarily stop participating in the Sacraments that person would end up in Hell for all of eternity.
That being said, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong up above, how is that not work?
-Kevin
Always one-upsmanship.... "good" friday wasn't enough eh?
And if the consequences for said actions are either Heaven of Hell, then how is that not working your way to Heaven?
-Kevin
BREAKING NEWS : Damascus Destroyed with Nuclear bomb.
BigMack
Thanks. You are. :)
So the punishment for dying in mortal sin is Purgatory?
-Kevin
It is easier, is it not, to do both sides of the conversation yourself? Since you are stuck with actual correspondents, how about if you let us speak for ourselves?
That being said, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong up above, how is that not work?
If my daughter sits in her high chair and opens her mouth, while I spoon feed her Heinz Baby Food is that work (on her part)?
SD
How would you square this with the parable of the sheep and the goats?
My stopping being charitable would have no bearing whatsoever on my eternal destiny. What affect would not participating in the Sacraments have on your eternal destiny?
Assuming you mean willfully, I have absolutely no idea. I try to follow the Orthodox tendency of being very careful about predicting what will happen before the dread judgement seat of God. If for some reason I let sin enter in to my life and willfully rejected the sacraments (which includes confession, meaning that I am rejecting repentence as well) and I died in this state of denial of Christ, I believe it could certainly jeopardize my salvation. In part because it would call in to doubt the authenticity of my original faith in Christ.
Nope. Care to try again in the double bonus round?
Pugatory is not really a "punishment" for anything. It is the "process" by which Christ removes our sins from us. The concept of how that works, or if it is a "place" or how much (if any) "time" is spent there is the debate.
That would be a matter of opinion. Which baby food? Mixed vegetables tends to be work for both of us.
IMRight: Thanks. You are. :)
Let me amend my previous statement:
please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong up above with a detailed description of where and how I am wrong along with a solution that would bring my wrong thinking back into the realm of Rightness.
;^)
-Kevin
We are, but they are just unwilling to come right out and say it.
-Kevin
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