The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[Quester]

Who/where is A Thinker?

It's me (Quester) ...
It's me (A_Thinker) ...
It's me (Quester/A_Thinker), oh Lord ...
Standing in the need of prayer (obviously). ;^)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You explain why it is, you brought it up.

Becky

[malakhi]

With all this agreeing going on, maybe we won't even need another thread. ;o)

[malakhi]

Since you have nothign to say about it, why don't you just shut up?

Maybe I was premature on that agreement thing... ;o)

[malakhi]

Heh heh heh. It's double predestination I don't abide by.

Of course you have to say that, you unregenerate wretch. ;o)

[OLD REGGIE]

Why not highlight the first part? "These things have I written." I think we need to look at the first part and what he had written and what it means, before we go into assuming that "that ye may know" applies to you, eh?

What is your point? What was written was directly addressed "unto you that believe". Who else? This is a no brainer.

[nobdysfool]

So it's impossible for Jesus to enable us to become better, enable us to become good enough to enter God's Presence?

Gotta disagree with you here. Because of what Jesus did, we are clothed with Christ, and therefore able to be in God's Presence. It's not our works that make that possible, it is the finished work of Christ applied to us by His Grace and our faith that allows us to stand in God's Presence. We are in Christ, clothed with Christ, and our righteousness is Christ's own Righteousness, imputed to us.

[al_c]

Terrible. Been too hot around here.

The worst day fishing beats the best day working. ;o)

[malakhi]

Less than 100 posts to go!

CONTINUATION THREAD POSTED HERE

Please finish up this thread and proceed to the new thread in an orderly fashion. No pushing or shoving! Remember, the first shall be last... ;o)

[ET(end tyranny)]

For an example, let's use some of the pedophile priests. Are their works (pedophelia) the works of Jesus? Or have these priests utilized their free will to behave in an abominable manner? Are these pedophile priests saved?

I would not venture to guess the fates of these and others which have done similarly.

I am content to leave their fates to God.

First, why are the fates of these priests exempt from the discussion at hand, while it seems okay for some to condemn others in this thread?

I thought the discussion was if we could tell if someone were truly saved or not by their fruits/works.

Being priests, one might naturally think that they had been 'saved'. So, my question using these priests as an example is can we determine if they were ever truly saved based on their behavior? These men that are supposed to be full of Christ???

I, too am content with leaving the ultimate decision to God. Too bad others aren't so willing to leave the condemning to God.

I merely brought these priests up to see if the example would help in determining if people can indeed lose their salvation, or if by their works/fruits we could determine that they may not have ever been truly saved to begin with.

[OLD REGGIE]

Since you have nothign to say about it, why don't you just shut up?

Now now little boy. No temper tantrums!

How many times have I said, and must I say, you know next to nothing about what "Protestants" believe.

Your hollering doesn't turn a non-fact into a fact.

Kiss Kiss.

[al_c]

Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

When we offer the riches of our time or talents to be Christ to a needy person, we are loving God.

Monday, August 18, 2003
Feria

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Judges 2:11-19 Psalm 106:34-37, 39-40, 43-44 Matthew 19:16-22 Have you begun to stop trying to defend your sins? Then you have made a beginning of righteousness!  -- St. Augustine

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

What do I still lack? (Matthew 19:20)

The young man who asked Jesus this question knew that there was something missing in his life. It was obvious that he sincerely wanted to please God, for he already kept the commandments. But Jesus knew that this seeker would never find the treasure he sought unless he learned detachment. So, he gently led the young man to a place he had not gone before. Had he accepted, this rich young man would have entered into the very heart of Jesus' teachings. But instead, he turned away.

Jesus' call to discipleship is a call to leave ourselves behind so that we can love God and other people. The call can seem quite threatening at first--to the point that we may be tempted to set limits on how far we will go in obeying the two great commandments. We may even try to preoccupy ourselves with devotions in a way that shields us from the need for active self-surrender.

Jesus invited the young man to sell his possessions and give to the poor (Matthew 19:21). Doesn't this highlight the close connection between loving God and loving our neighbor? Indeed, the two are joined in an intimate way: When we fulfill Jesus' "new command" to love others as he loves us, we really do love God. "If we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us" (1 John 4:12).

Every day, we are blessed with many opportunities to put this radical love into action. When we go out of our way to be kind to the person who irritates us most, or to be patient with a trying child, we are "selling" what we have and following Jesus. When we offer the riches of our time or talents to be Christ to a needy person, we are loving God. This is the way to the perfection that Jesus tells all his followers to seek (Matthew 19:21). So, how will you respond today?

"Lord Jesus, all my security lies in you. Guide my actions and send me into the harvest filled with your love. May I know the power of your transforming Spirit."

----------

God bless.

AC

[nobdysfool]

Catholics believe that the death of Jesus was a one-time sacrifice that echoes forward and backward in history, and is "made present" in the eucharist. Individual salvation could work the same way -- at the moment you are saved, all your sins, past and present, are forgiven.

Very insightful! Great post! That's the way I see it. Repentance is more the answer of a good conscience to God when we recognize that we have sinned. The sin is already forgiven, already paid for, and we are covered between the time we sin, and the time we ask forgiveness and repent.

Otherwise, if you sinned, and then got hit by a truck before you repented, you'd be lost. That seems rather cruel to me.

[SoothingDave]

Who's hollering? I merely noted that since you have nothing to say, that being quiet might be an option you might want to look into.

SD

[malakhi]

Otherwise, if you sinned, and then got hit by a truck before you repented, you'd be lost. That seems rather cruel to me.

I agree. It seems rather capricious.

I do have a question for you. I've seen a number of posts you've made about sin being "covered". Do you see it as being "covered" only, or actually wiped clean? Does the believer only have the illusion of righteousness (being covered by the righteousness of Jesus), or is he actually made righteous>

[al_c]

Less than 100 posts to go!

That said ... I'm outa here. Have fun with the spam, everyone.

Mr. Bun: Morning.

Waitress: Morning.

Mr. Bun: Well, what you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and SPAM; egg, bacon and SPAM; egg, bacon, sausage and SPAM; SPAM, bacon, sausage and SPAM; SPAM, egg, SPAM, SPAM, bacon and SPAM; SPAM, sausage, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, bacon, SPAM, tomato and SPAM; SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, egg and SPAM; Vikings start to sing in background SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, lovely SPAM, lovely SPAM. SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, baked beans, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM and SPAM or Lobster Thermidor au Crevettes with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and SPAM.

Mrs. Bun: Have you got anything without SPAM?

Waitress: Well, there's SPAM, egg, sausage and SPAM. That's not got much SPAM in it.

Mrs. Bun: I don't want any SPAM!

Mr. Bun: Why can't she have egg, bacon, SPAM and sausage?

Mrs. Bun: That's got SPAM in it.

Mr. Bun: It hasn't got as much SPAM in it as SPAM, egg, sausage and SPAM has it?

Mrs. Bun: Could you do me egg, bacon, SPAM and sausage without the SPAM then?

Waitress - Uuuuuuggggh!

Mrs. Bun: What do you mean Uuuuggg! I don't like SPAM!

Vikings: SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, lovely SPAM, lovely SPAM, wonderful SPAM

Waitress: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Bloody vikings. You can't have egg, bacon, SPAM and sausage without the SPAM.

Mrs. Bun: I don't like SPAM!

Mrs., Bun - Don't make a fuss, dear. I'll have your SPAM. I love it. I'm having SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, Lovely SPAM, Wonderful SPAM. SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, Magnificent SPAM, Superlative SPAM. SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, Wonderful SPAM, Surgical SPAM, Splendiferous SPAM!

Vikings: SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, lovely SPAM, lovely SPAM, wonderful SPAM

Waitress: Shut up! Baked beans are off.

Mr. Bun: Well, can I have her SPAM instead of the baked beans?

Waitress: You mean SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, and SPAM?

Vikings: SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM. Lovely SPAM! Wonderful SPAM! lovely SPAM! Wonderful SPAM. SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM! SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM. Lovely SPAM! Wonderful SPAM! lovely SPAM! Wonderful SPAM. SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM! Lovely SPAM!

SPAAAAAAAAAM! SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM!

[ET(end tyranny)]

You explain why it is, you brought it up.

See my #65,450

[SoothingDave]

Otherwise, if you sinned, and then got hit by a truck before you repented, you'd be lost. That seems rather cruel to me.

I agree. It seems rather capricious.

Jesus tells us not to be like the foolish virgins who were not prepared. He also tells us He will come quickly, like a thief in the night. So we should always be prepared.

Had they had such a thing then, He may very well have said He will come like the 5:10 crosstown express.

SD

[malakhi]

No one seems to be making their move yet. I wonder what the threshold of restraint will be? 65,475? 65,500? Or (wonder of wonders) will the thread actually expire a natural, unspammed death?

[malakhi]

Jesus tells us not to be like the foolish virgins who were not prepared.

But can you always be prepared? Can you commit a mortal sin and immediately repent? (In theory, sure, but practically?)