Why Christians Don't Understand Non-Christians

ArGee | 1/3/01 | ArGee

[ArGee]

A very rich man decided that he wanted to show kindness to the people of the fair city where he lived. Since he was very rich indeed, he decided to throw a banquet for the entire city. He rented the largest sports arena in the city and began his plans. He planned for huge amounts of the best food possible, making allowances for every religious and medical diet. He advertised the banquet in every possible manner - television, radio, billboard, door-to-door canvassing. Considering that there might be some who could not travel, he arranged for free bus transportation to and from the event, and some special-needs vehicles for all who could not ride busses. He even scheduled the banquet to run for 24 hours a day for several days so that everyone could be sure of being served.

He planned long and hard and finally the big day came. The rich man ate quickly and then went about wishing all his guests well and personally making sure that all had every need met. After a while he went outside to tour the grounds and talk with those who had not yet gone in, and those who had already left. Everyone was happy. Many were profusely thankful. It was a glorious occasion.

At one point the rich man noticed a group of people sitting outside a locked door with most unpleasant looks on their faces. Sensing they were not happy, he went over to them. He did not introduce himself but simply asked them if he could be of service.

"We want to go in through this door," one of them replied.

The rich man explained to them that the hall was arranged to feed a large number of people as quickly and effortlessly as possible. This required order inside, and the entrances and exits had been carefully planned to be as efficient as possible. He then offered to go call one of the golf carts that were avaialbe to help people who could not walk far to take them to the entrance. But the man replied, "We do not want to go in the entrance. We want to go in this door. We don't understand why we can't go in any door we wish. We think the man who set this banquet up is mean and hateful for insisting we go in through the entrance. He has tried to bill himself as a very kind man by offering this banquet, but he is not kind at all if he will not indulge us and let us go through this door.

The rich man was distressed at these words, but still attempted to please these people. He tried once more to explain to them what was behind this particular door, and how if they went in this door they would disrupt the meal service being offered inside. He offered to drive them himself, not only to the door, but inside the hall to their tables if they would only go through the entrance to enjoy the meal. Again the man said, "No, but only a hateful man would keep us from going through the door of our choosing. And we will sit here and tell anyone who will listen to us what an awful man he is until he lets us in."

At that the rich man was enraged and he shouted, "Enough." Then he called a police officer to have them thrown off of the property and ordered that they not be allowed to return until the banquet was over and all the scraps had been hauled away. Then, mourning for their loss, he turned to visit with other guests.

[Cogadh na Sith]

I mean... what kind of God would demand that a devoted follower be willing to slit the throat of his own beloved son, just to prove he loves him?

"Fear and Trembling" by Kierkegaard covers this well.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

I ask myself how a loving God could stomp the life out of every living soul in a town, because he didn't approve of the majority's behavior.

If you're referring to Sodom, this is inaccurate. It's a remarkable story for Abraham defying and arguing with God, not without success:

Genesis 18:22....[B]ut Abraham stood yet before the Lord

23 And Abraham drew near, and said: "Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

24 Perhaps there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep away and not forgive the place for the fifty righteous that remain there?

25 That be far from You to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that so the righteous should be as the wicked; that be far from You; shall no the Judge of all the earth do justly?"

26 And the Lord said: "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous with the city, then I will forgive all the place for their sake."

Abraham continues to argue with God until 18:32:

And [Abraham] said: "Let the Lord not be angry and I will speak yet but this once. Perhaps ten shall be found there." And He said: "I will not destroy if for the ten's sake."

In the end, there are not 10 righteous men in Sodom. God sees to it that the few righteous man -- Lot and his family -- are allowed to escape and then destroys the rest. But that is a case where it's not majority behavior, but behavior by every member of a group.

[Hagrid]

Yeah, very nice post.

What banquet?

People keep talking about the banquet, but every time they leave town somebody says that they went to the banquet, but nobody really knows and they never return.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

I don't claim to be an expert on the bible but if I remember correctly there was this "tree of knowledge" whose fruits were not intended for human consumption.

If that wasn't a set-up, I don't know what is. The crowning act of creating humans: Self-will, even to defy God, for better or worse. It wouldn't surprise me if the serpent turns out to be one of God's angels in costume.

[WonderBob]

Celtjew, perhaps you can explain to me how Lot can be counted among the righteous? Is it righteous to offer up your daughters to a mob of rapists?

[f.Christian]

Good News For The Day

‘He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.’ (Acts 10:11)

It must be remembered that the sheet was let down from heaven. It did not spring up from the earth. In the last book of Scripture, similar language is employed to picture the city of God coming down to earth out of heaven. The city of God cannot, never will be, fashioned by human hands. We do not have it in us to create a kinship where everyone enjoys complete acceptance. Christ alone can eliminate prejudice.

The good news of deliverance, for me personally, includes the good news of God's rescue of all the others as well-those others who often do not please me. The great moral imperative that stands over us in the gospel is that we who have been so loved, ought to love others similarly.

A lecturer in the United States was traveling through the South. He called for his mail at a post office-it was in the years before civil rights. The lecturer noticed that there were many Blacks standing in line asking for letters. One by one they went to the desk and asked for mail, but none of them received any. The next day they were all there again, standing in line asking for mail. The lecturer asked the postmaster if any of them ever received any letters. 'Oh no', he answered with a laugh, 'they think they should exercise the same rights as the white man, so they stand in line and ask for letters just as he does.' The lecturer was dismayed by what he heard, so he asked the postmaster for names and addresses of some of the Blacks in the town.

When he returned to his home he wrote to them. Among the replies he received was this one:

‘Dear friend, I got you letter yesterday. I tell you I'se mighty glad to git it. I'se waitin' thirty year for your letter. I'se awful glad to git it. But why didn't you send it before?’

Our world longs for a social order in which everyone is of equal worth. This very thing has come into the world through the kingdom of Christ. A day will come when everyone will know of it and be glad. Perhaps some will say, 'Why didn't you tell us before?'

May God help you and me to... love our neighbors.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

That one's easy. It's not how western society works, but the society that Lot was in, hospitality and protection of a guest was the higher and more sacred duty.

There is also a suggestion, I believe in the Talmud, that Lot's daughters, having seen the corruption in Sodom and Gomorrah and having been tempted by it were willing to offer themselves in the guests' places and, indeed, may have been the first to suggest making the offer.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

This I do believe: all who have ever lived will someday bend the knee and acknowledge that God was and is perfect in His judgments--some to their joy and some to their shame.

I wonder about this.... Considering that God gave each of us will and judgement, is it possible that, even when God fully reveals Himself, some will (like Abraham before Sodom) disagree with God's judgement. And, if so, how will God react?

[wai-ming]

God has a different standard of morality than we mere mortals do

Perhaps God's "morality" defines what God can do and what mortals can do. Certain things are reserved for God (e.g. the power over life and death). On the surface this seems hypocritical. I mean, if God can do it, why can't we?

But consider an analogy. Parents do many things which they would absolutely deny their small children (e.g. have sex, handle large sums of money, drive the family car). Does that mean they are hypocrites or have a different standard of morality?
I think not.

Everyone must die some time or other. Only God knows what's on the other side. If He chooses to send an "innocent" to heaven sooner rather than later, then so be it. Who are we to say He is being cruel or hypocritical?

If we had the knowledge, experience and eternal perspective that God has, I'm sure it would all seem perfectly logical.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

(Full Disclosure: I have no idea if God has actually giggled at OWK. He hasn't told me about this one way or the other. I suppose I'm saying that if I were God, I would be giggling at OWK right now.)

Somehow, I can't imagine God giggling. A full-throated belly laugh, a wry chuckle, an exasperated, "Why Me?" -- these I can imagine. But somehow, I can't imagine God making any exclamation or outburst that would involve Him climbing the scales.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

If God is different from man merely by degree, he wouldn't be very interesting.

But He is: And the Lord God said: "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for eve." (Genesis: 3:22)

In short, the difference between man and God is eternal life.... and if God grants eternal life to those humans he chooses, by whatever means, then it appears He created us in order to create more small-g gods to join whatever "us" God refers to.

But I believe that this does not make God less interesting, but man more so.

[wai-ming]

What kind of God would demand that a devoted follower be willing to slit the throat of his own beloved son, just to prove he loves him?

Let me take a stab at this one, no pun intended:

What kind of general would send his men to battle, knowing full well that many of them might die?

Hopefully, one who had a broader perspective and could see the sacrifice as a means to accomplish some greater good.

Perhaps this is what God had in mind with Abraham and Isaac. But, what "greater good" could possibly be accomplished by Abraham nearly sacrificing his beloved son?

Maybe God was trying to remind Abraham (and everyone who reads the story in the Bible) of His love for mankind, "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son...(John 3:16). However, in God's case, the sacrifice was ultimate. There was no substitute ram in the thicket.

So, OWK, you unknowingly answered your own question: ..to prove that He (God) loved him (Abraham, and by extension all of us)

[Syene]

That is the gist of G-d's plan. For us to stand on our feet, use the gifts we were dealt by the Dealer and take our arguments and common sense and logic straight to the heart of the matter. We were not born to live as slaves to an idea or a nation, or a government, or a religion. Who would DARE argue logic with G-d? WE would. And often times, we are right. The fallibilities in man are of man's own making. He chose to see himself as inferior. On that day, he forgot that we are created in G-d's OWN image, male and female he created them. (*He, for me is a generic term.) I seldom call HaShem he OR she since faith requires me to believe that both are not impossible and are, indeed, two sides of the same coin. Neither is G-d a scapegoat for the religions of the world as so many have made it seem.
G-d is the original. We are perfect copies. Somewhere on the road between man's birth and today, too many people have given themselves over into man's hands. And therein lies the misunderstanding. Those who presume to speak FOR G-d have an arrogance that is most intolerant of those who would rather G-d spoke for G-d's self. You speak the words of men. But you cannot cast us either up or down. Only WE can choose the paths we walk, because that is what G-d said when G-d spoke for G-d's self.

[Elsie]

Dang! Did you guys stay up ALL night, filling up this thread???

[savedbygrace]

Yeah, what you said. I'm glad I wrote up that disclosure; it covers me for things like this.

[savedbygrace]

God defined morality.
Is he not subject to the morality he defined?

Your vaunted reasoning has failed you, O. God also defined the penalty for sin. By your reasoning above, God would be "subject" to this penalty (particularly since OWK has declared him guilty of the sins of theft and murder.) That would mean that God would be eternally separated from the presence of . . . God. How silly.

This is partially what I meant earlier when I commented that you were making God out to be mortal man.

(Do you also get lost in a room with mirrors on facing walls?)