Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee
But if it makes you feel better to dismiss anything I may have to say with a wave of the hand, because you don't think I'm "qualified", then feel free to do so."
Excuse me! I guess I shouldn't have merely relied upon your writings in this thread to arrive at my conclusions.
I didn't realize that you were a qualified Bible teacher or theologian. I'll withhold the "wave of my hand" until after I read your legitimate Scriptural, and historic refutations of each of the points that Horton made in his essay on Pelagianism in my reply at #209. I'm sure you disagree with him, no? Take your time.
No.
A man posts questions which make you uncomfortable.
You have no answers to the questions.
Legitimate contemplation and introspection burns your skin like fire....
And so.... you question your antagonist's "theological credentials", in hopes that the nasty man will stop asking the difficult questions.
Like I said.... suit yourself...
But it's transparent even to the casual observer.
Thats not possible, unless you think you can prove otherwise by using Scripture and the historical record to legitimately refute Horton's essay on Palagianism that I posted at #209.
We have almost FOUR HUNDRED posts on this thread. I haven't read them all, but I have scanned an awful lot of them.
So far, I haven't found ANYONE besides you and me who has noticed this problem in the original article. The Christians are just focusing on the positive features. And the scoffers do not seem to be profiting overly much from the discussion one way or the other.
Weird, huh?
And you apparently don't understand the distinction between eternity and this temporal life we live.
Then you claim to have superior reasoning skills. (And you still haven't answered the question. Whose definitions will win out, or carry the day, so to speak? Your's or God's? (One word answer accepted - "Mine" or "God's.")
Are you ignorant of the fact that there are laws of proper Biblical interpretation? Have you ever heard the word, "Hermeneutics"?
Not at all. It's no trick to say that God is either perfectly justified, or else he is not. If he is not, he's no real God, and we have no business to worship him. If he is, he not only requires no excuses or explanation, but is utterly above and apart from all such probing.
If God is different from man merely by degree, he wouldn't be very interesting. Job's message is that God differs from man in an absolute, fundamental, and sovereign way (IOW, answering to no one), and thus the criteria for examining his ways are utterly different from examining the ways of men.
Even though you're not a believer, I hope you can accept on a theoretical level the distinction that Job makes.
God defined morality.
Is he not subject to the morality he defined?
Or is there a different morality for God, which holds the punishment and murder of innocents as moral acts?
You seem to be rationalizing here... (and not very successfully)
Are you ignorant of how ridiculous this statement is?
That's an utter cop-out.
If God is not subject to the moral laws that he himself defined, then they are not laws.
It is verifiable truth and you know it, deep down inside, but you choose not to admit it, or believe it. That's your choice. God has revealed Himself to man, and if you were totally honest with yourself, you'd know that to be true, because He's revealed Himself to you.
Let's get something straight here: God is not what we conceive Him to be, He is what He reveals Himself to be. Period. He has revealed Himself all around you. Evidence of His handiwork is everywhere you turn. It is you who refuses to acknowledge it, not He who refuses to reveal Himself. He has revealed Himself in His Word. He has revealed Himself in every act of kindness directed toward you when you didn't expect it. He has revelaed Himself in the fact that you continue to draw breath, in spite of the fact you know you don't deserve to, because of the state of your soul when measured against His Word. Saying that it isn't so doesn't make it go away. There is Truth outside of your own experience and knowledge, and it exists whether or not you believe it does. Open your eyes!
Ok... Let's grant the supposition that God is love.
It's not a supposition. God said that he is love.
But let's also recognize the fact that God teaches us what love is both in law, and in parable, throughout the Bible. And as such, we understand that it is immoral to steal, and to murder, and to intentionally cause harm to another, and to punish innocents.
OK, agreed.
And yet we are expected to believe that when GOD does these things, it is somehow moral?
When did God do ANY of these things? (If you answer correctly, you might get me to agree somewhat with ONE of these, to a limited degree. Which one?)
We are expected to believe that God turns a flood loose on the world, and drowns all of it's children, and that this is somehow moral?
Mischaracterization. You know better than this. If you don't want me quoting Bible verses back at you, please refrain from this.
We are expected to believe that God looses plagues, disease, and pestilence on the innocent children of Egypt, and that this is somehow moral?
Come on, once again, you know better than this. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We are conceived in sin. Also, eternity in the presence of God awaits the children who are taken before they are accountable.
We are expected to believe that he tortures and disfigures Job in some sado-masochistic side-bet with Satan, and that this is somehow moral?
Another gross mischaracterization. What was the end result for Job?
We are expected to believe that he demands the willingness to cut the throat of one's own son in a test of fealty, and that this is somehow moral?
Test of fealty? (Giggle) Once again, what was the end result for Abraham?
I'll leave the personal dig that follows this aside, 'cause I don't think you really meant it.
OWK: "Are you ignorant of how ridiculous this statement is?"
No. I agree.
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