Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee
A very rich man decided that he wanted to show kindness to the people of the fair city where he lived. Since he was very rich indeed, he decided to throw a banquet for the entire city. He rented the largest sports arena in the city and began his plans. He planned for huge amounts of the best food possible, making allowances for every religious and medical diet. He advertised the banquet in every possible manner - television, radio, billboard, door-to-door canvassing. Considering that there might be some who could not travel, he arranged for free bus transportation to and from the event, and some special-needs vehicles for all who could not ride busses. He even scheduled the banquet to run for 24 hours a day for several days so that everyone could be sure of being served.
He planned long and hard and finally the big day came. The rich man ate quickly and then went about wishing all his guests well and personally making sure that all had every need met. After a while he went outside to tour the grounds and talk with those who had not yet gone in, and those who had already left. Everyone was happy. Many were profusely thankful. It was a glorious occasion.
At one point the rich man noticed a group of people sitting outside a locked door with most unpleasant looks on their faces. Sensing they were not happy, he went over to them. He did not introduce himself but simply asked them if he could be of service.
"We want to go in through this door," one of them replied.
The rich man explained to them that the hall was arranged to feed a large number of people as quickly and effortlessly as possible. This required order inside, and the entrances and exits had been carefully planned to be as efficient as possible. He then offered to go call one of the golf carts that were avaialbe to help people who could not walk far to take them to the entrance. But the man replied, "We do not want to go in the entrance. We want to go in this door. We don't understand why we can't go in any door we wish. We think the man who set this banquet up is mean and hateful for insisting we go in through the entrance. He has tried to bill himself as a very kind man by offering this banquet, but he is not kind at all if he will not indulge us and let us go through this door.
The rich man was distressed at these words, but still attempted to please these people. He tried once more to explain to them what was behind this particular door, and how if they went in this door they would disrupt the meal service being offered inside. He offered to drive them himself, not only to the door, but inside the hall to their tables if they would only go through the entrance to enjoy the meal. Again the man said, "No, but only a hateful man would keep us from going through the door of our choosing. And we will sit here and tell anyone who will listen to us what an awful man he is until he lets us in."
At that the rich man was enraged and he shouted, "Enough." Then he called a police officer to have them thrown off of the property and ordered that they not be allowed to return until the banquet was over and all the scraps had been hauled away. Then, mourning for their loss, he turned to visit with other guests.
Of course you also have to understand that this is only one issue. I've kind of poked at them during all of this let me lay them out clean, some of these apply to any religion some apply specifically to Christianity, you can probably figure out which is which on your own:
Souls, they really don't add up from a non-religious perspective.
Old Testament God of smiting and vengeance, while you might read it differently a lot of us see drowning the entire planet as rather extreme and not the activities of a benevolent being (note, this tends to keep people agnostic more than atheist).
What happens to people that never heard the Word (I know you answered, including for completeness).
Why is being saved the important part, in other words why aren't good non-Christian allowed in heaven.
But there's all these other religions, and they all say they're the one true religion, and there's no method of judging external to all religion that shows any of them as more valid.
Then, even if you decide to be Christian, you've got to figure out which sect, just picking between flavors of Lutheranism could take years.
Some people just don't want the kind of personal relationship with God you have, I think that's mostly us fallen Catholics, but some folks just don't want to bask in the light all the time. Some folks would rather what I call a Naval relationship rather than an Airforce relationship, if you know how both branches work that makes sense, if requested I'll explain that one.
And, I think this is finally, some folks just aren't spiritual, they're just plain not interested because that's not a world they live in. It's like trying to convince someone to watch a TV show and that person has never watched TV consistently and when they did watch at all they didn't like it; it's just not their world.
There's a vast myriad of things and that list is not even remotely complete, but you begin to understand. If going as open minded as possible my thought is that if there is a God he wants us to get the core message. And the core message isn't something that exclusive to one religion. It's the basic rules of conduct that are in almost every religion: honor, decency, respect, honesty. You know the list. And He doesn't care how you got the message just so long as you live by it. There might or might not be a reward at the end, but there doesn't have to be, because living that lifestyle, regardless of your religious label, is it's own reward. It's a better way to live and life works better when you do.
Then on the otherside, in my least open minded I think it's all just gobbledy gook and religion is just there to understand the societies that made them. Of course even then, living the moral life is it's own reward.
Maybe I'm really just ANGRY at elves for how ugly the world is sometimes, and I'm just DENYING their existence out of spite....
Let me ask you something. If someone put a gun to a woman's head and told her "get in this car," would it be considered a "free act" if she got into the car (because she was terrified of being killed if she did not obey?) As long as the doctrine of hell exists, Christianity is not a free choice. Hell is the gun to your head.
I did. And I read some mighty fine examples of back pedaling -- fast -- once you'd been called on your "many" and "few" adjectives. You're convictions seem to get weaker the more you are called upon to defend them.
The fact remains that you associated this "trait" with "many" Christians -- not many people. That is stereotyping. You could look it up.
You obviously never watched the Lion King, but they made it clear that we are all part of the great Circle of Life. So, of course the death of the physical bidy is not the end of it all-- we become fertilizer for the next generation of life and we leave behind our families and progeny as our lasting legacy.
you're mistaken.
When I read His Word I see something unlike anything anyone has ever imagined.
please expound. as for my conception, let me tell it like this:
where did i come from?
no one knows but we'll call the answer God.
why am i here?
no one knows but we'll call the answer God's plan.
where am i going when i die?
no one knows but we'll call the answer God's justice.
why should i be good when evil seems to be rewarded?
no one knows but we'll call the answer God's presence.
will bad people ever have to pay for their deeds?
no one knows but we'll call the answer God's wrath.
why does everyone have to die someday?
no one knows but read the story of God and Adam.
why do bad things happen to good people?
no one knows but read the story of God and Job.
why are there different languages?
no one knows but read the story of God and Babel.
why are there rainbows?
no one knows but read the story of God and Noah.
and so on and so on and finally...
what does God look like?
like a man.
what is our relationship to Him?
he is our Father.
the problem theists face today is that in general people are not as confounded by these questions as they used to be.
I think this is almost certainly true.
Your anger keeps you from seeing them, and your anti-elf bias keeps your from forming a personal relationship with them.
If I take certain substances, I will die from poisoning. By that logic, not taking poison is not a free choice. Knowing (or believing) there are bad consequences to certain actions does not take away free choice.
One day, one of those intelligences will ask the questions: Why am I here? Who created me or did I evolve? etc.
It's not going to answer the questions with regard to ourselves, but it's going to put a new perspective on them.
So then a man who surrenders his money to an armed mugger, does so by free choice?
That's because the topic was Christians -- not people.
You spin like a seasoned Demorat.
Let me ask you this, "enlightened one": Is it even possible for someone to be a bigot against a group that they themself belong to? I don't think so.
The bottom line is that you (without any reason other than your own ignorance) are trying to paint me as someone who is prejudiced against Christians. A pathetic waste of your time and energy considering I am a Christian myself.
His opportunity to resist (at risk to his own life) notwithstanding.... surely you don't mean to suggest that the victim of a mugging somehow makes a free-will decision to enrich his mugger.... do you?
His choice is coerced.
So if someone put a gun to your child's head and threatened to kill her if you didn't rob a liquor store for them... so you did it... you'd expect to be charged with theft and jailed? The fact that they held a gun to your head, or your child's, or whatever, should play no part in the juror's considerations? It was your free choice?
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