Is the Gog-Magog War Armageddon?

The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each man named was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that later became a nation. These post-diluvian men are the sons and descendants of Noah’s three sons. Japeth was Noah’s eldest son. His descendants are mentioned in Genesis 10:2-5. Japeth had seven sons. “The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras” (Genesis 10:2). Three of these names appear in the prophecy of Ezekiel 38-39.

Magog, the second son of Japeth, fathered the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They primarily lived in Central Asia and are widely regarded as the ancestors of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. Josephus Flavius, a Jewish historian, wrote, “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is referred to as the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.

Tubal and Meshech founded the areas of Turkey and the Central Asian Republics of the former Soviet Union, southeast of the Black Sea. Josephus identified Meshech with Cappadocia, the region of eastern Turkey that was home to the ancient Hittite Empire. Cappadocia is a historical region in central Anatolia, Turkey. Historically, ancient sources authored by Herodotus and certain Assyrian records place Meshech and Tubal in Asia Minor—modern-day Turkey.

Many Bible students are familiar with Ezekiel 38-39. They know this prophecy foretells a future military invasion of Israel by many Muslim nations led by a ‘prince’ or ‘commander’ known as Gog, of the land of Magog. The KJV, ESV, NIV, and most other versions translate Ezekiel 38:2 as, ‘Son of man, set thy face against Gog, (of) the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” These two sons of Japheth are frequently mentioned together in biblical texts and are often associated with regions of Asia Minor, particularly in the territory of modern-day Turkey. They are sometimes related to the Tabal and Mushki, ancient peoples attested in Assyrian records.

However, the NASB, AMPC, DARBY, EHV, and a few other versions translate it as, “Son of man, set thy face against Gog, (of) the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” This translation suggests that Ezekiel identifies Gog as the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, a designation that has been linked to Russia, Moscow, and Tubal.

The reason for this difference in translations is because of the tenth Hebrew word (or transliteration), ‘rōš’ (Strong’s H7218). The KJV renders this word as an adjective for ‘prince’; it is translated as ‘chief’ 91 times and ‘head’ 349 times. Nowhere is ‘ros’ translated as ‘Rosh’ in the KJV or ESV. The Hebrew word for ‘prince’ (in this verse) is ‘nāśî.’

The NASB and a few other translations (including the LXX) render ‘ros’ as ‘Rosh,’ a proper noun, as in ‘Rosh’ (Russia). “The LXX (Septuagint) was written only three centuries after the time of Ezekiel. As early as 2600 B.C., ancient Egyptian and other Middle Eastern inscriptions and texts, such as in Sargon’s inscriptions, on a cylinder by Assurbanipal, in an annul by Sennacherib, and five times in Ugaritic tablets, all record the existence of the Rosh/Rash/Reshu people. There are 9th-century BC Assyrian texts, predating Ezekiel’s time, that refer to the Rosh or Rashu.” {1} Timing Gog and Magog | Tribulation | Lamb and Lion Ministries

The difference between these two versions is that in the KJV, there are only two nations, Meshech and Tubal, over whom Gog is the (chief) prince. In the NASB, there are three nations, Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, over whom Gog is the prince. These three ancient nations now constitute the modern nations of Russia and Turkey. Since Rosh is listed first, Gog would be a Russian.

So, as usual, there are two points of view regarding which nation Gog is from and which nation leads the invasion against Israel. Most scholars agree (somewhat) on identifying the other participants in this multinational coalition (mostly Muslims) mentioned in Ezekiel 38:5-6. Persia is definitely Iran. Cush occupied territory in Sudan and Ethiopia. Put’s territory was Libya, Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia. Gomer inhabited the Rhine and Danube valleys and can be associated with Eastern Europe today. Regarding Beth Togarmah, ‘Beth’ means ‘house’ in Hebrew. Togarmah was a son of Gomer. Today, the Armenians call themselves the House of Togarmah. The Turks (but not the Kurds, who are the ancient Medes) are also included.

Those who interpret ‘ros’ as ‘chief’ (or ‘head’) believe Gog, “of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal,” is from Turkey, and that Turkey is the main antagonist against Israel. They believe Russia might have a minor role in this invasion and could be one of the “and many people with thee” in Ezekiel 38:6. In this eschatological scenario, the Antichrist would be a Muslim Turkish leader attempting to revive the glory of the Ottoman Empire by regaining territory lost after World War I. What better way to restore their glory days than to eradicate the Jewish people once and for all?

The identity of Gog and the timing of the Gog-led confederacy war are other points of controversy. Some Bible teachers who think Russia is not the ‘Ros’ in the Gog coalition, and that Turkey is the leader of the anti-Israel alliance, also believe Gog is the Muslim Antichrist, and Ezekiel 38-39 describes the battle of Armageddon before Jesus’s Second Coming. Supporters of this view, such as Louis Bauman and Charles Feinberg, believe the Gog-Magog Battle and the final battle of Armageddon are one and the same. Joel Richardson adheres to this view and has written several books and produced several YouTube videos on the subject, including End Time Talks 6: Is Russia Gog of Magog - YouTube.

One thing I don’t understand about this end-time view (at the end of the Tribulation) of the Gog war is what happens to Russia? Is Russia destroyed by one of the judgments of God, or what happens to make Turkey take the lead against Israel and not Russia?

Ezekiel 38:17 says, “Thus says the Lord God: Are you he of whom I spoke in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel, who in those days prophesied for years that I would bring you against them?” Joel Richardson and others think this verse refers to “the Assyrian” of Isaiah 14:24-27 and Micah 5:5, as it is a dual fulfillment (one in Isaiah and Micah’s time and one in the end-times). So, in their view, Gog is “the Assyrian,” another name for the Antichrist or the Beast.

The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?” (Isaiah 14:24-27).

“And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men” (Micah 5:5).

I think it is entirely possible that the Antichrist could be a Muslim and even come from Turkey. Daniel 9:26-27 stipulates that it was the people (or soldiers) of the prince to come (the Antichrist) that shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (Second Temple). “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”

The ‘he’ who makes a covenant and the ‘prince that shall come‘ are the same person - the Antichrist. Many scholars have confirmed that the vast majority of the soldiers who attacked Jerusalem under Titus were Middle Easterners rather than Europeans. Islam would become their religion in the future. The legions that Titus used to attack Jerusalem were stationed in the Middle East, which were mainly the Arab and Syrian peoples of the ‘Levant’. The Levant is the eastern Mediterranean region, comprising Cyprus, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and parts of Turkey.

Also, according to the late, great Jack Kelley, “It was the Romans who burned Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. The Roman Empire was also prophesied by Daniel to have two “legs” in his interpretation of the poly-metallic statue in chapter 2, and indeed at one time, it had both Eastern (Constantinople) and western (Rome) capitals. Much of what was then the Eastern component is now the Muslim Middle East, while the Western component is now Europe.

Since Rome was never really conquered in the traditional sense but fell into decline and was replaced by the Holy Roman Empire, many students of prophecy have seen a revival of the Roman Empire as the major player in the End Times. It has been thought that the European Union is this revival, and that the anti-Christ would come from Western Europe. The rise of Islam has caused some to remember Rome’s Eastern leg, and a recently popularized Islamic prophecy of al Mahdi (or Muslim Messiah as he’s called) shows a remarkable similarity to Biblical prophecy of the anti-Christ. Putting these facts together permits the possibility of the anti-Christ being Muslim without violating Daniel’s prophecy.” {2} Is The Anti Christ Muslim? – Grace thru faith.

If the Antichrist is a Muslim, he is not a devout follower of Allah. Daniel 11:37 says, “He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers (the Moon god or Allah), or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all.” If the Antichrist is a Muslim (for the sake of appearances), he shall not worship the moon god, Allah.

If he is a ‘Roman,’ he shall not acknowledge “the one beloved by women.” “From the Jewish perspective, women desired to fulfill the promise given to Eve of a coming Redeemer to be born of a woman. Undoubtedly, many Jewish women hoped that one of their sons would fulfill this prophecy. Accordingly, this term refers to the Messiah of Israel. What this passage accordingly predicted was that he wasn’t a Jew, and as a Gentile, he would have a total disregard for Scripture and its promise of a coming King of Kings.

In keeping with verse 36, Daniel declared, ‘Nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all’ (v. 37). This reinforced the concept that he rejected not simply the God of Israel but all gods, whether pagan or the true God. In other words, he will be an atheist and will consider himself a deity.” {3} Every Prophecy of the Bible by John Walvoord.

It is possible (IMO) that the Antichrist could be from Turkey, as the kingdom of Assyria encompassed Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq), through Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey), and down through Egypt. The Assyrian empire was the largest in the world during the eighth and seventh centuries B.C.E.

What I do doubt, however, is that Gog and the Antichrist are the same person, and that the timing of the Gog war (Ezekiel 38-39) is the same as the Campaign of Armageddon (Zechariah 12-14, Isaiah 63, Revelation 16-19, & others). I believe Gog could be the person (the Assyrian) referenced in Ezekiel 38:17, but he isn’t the Antichrist. One of the main reasons they are two different people is their different fates at the end of these wars.

Ezekiel 39:11 says Gog (and all his multitude) will be killed and buried in Israel. They will even name the area where he is buried after him. On the other hand, the Antichrist (and the false prophet) are both captured and “were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone,” according to Revelation 19:20. Satan is thrown in the lake of fire after the millennium, as mentioned in Revelation 20, where the beast (the Antichrist) and the false prophet still are after a thousand years.

Regarding the timing of these two wars, we know that the campaign of Armageddon occurs at the end of Daniel’s 70th week (the Tribulation) and culminates in Jesus coming to the earth with the armies of heaven and single-handedly destroying the Antichrist and his armies. The timing of the Gog war is less specific. Of course, those who are in Richardson’s camp believe it occurs at the end of the Tribulation, as it is the same war as Armageddon. I think there are some similarities, but there are more differences than similarities, which we will examine below.

1. Both the Gog-Magog war and the Armageddon war take place in the “latter years” or “last days” of the Tribulation. However, in my view, the Gog war occurs right before the Tribulation begins, and the other point of view is that it happens at the end of the Tribulation.

2. The wars of Ezekiel and Revelation both describe dead invaders being eaten by birds and wild animals. However, this same phenomenon is also found in Isaiah 18:6; Jeremiah 7:33, 15:3, 16:4, 19:7, 34:20; and Ezekiel 29:5, 32:4.

3. After the destruction of the Gog coalition, Ezekiel declares that Israel will again acknowledge God (Ezekiel 39:22,29). Since the Jews are currently mostly a secular nation and especially non-Messianic (regarding Jesus), the question is, “Will this acknowledgment of God, after the Gog war, be toward the Father, Yahweh, (and re-establishing their covenant relationship with Him) or will it be toward Jesus as their Messiah and Son of God? I’ll let you know more about this at the end of this article.

The following eight differences between these two events were identified in Timing Gog and Magog | Tribulation | Lamb and Lion Ministries. Most of them are also found in Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s book, The Footsteps of the Messiah. I will also leave comments on some of them (after Author’s note:).

1. The peaceful precondition in which Israel has to be living unsuspecting and in peace (or security) before the Gog-Magog Battle cannot exist under the Great Tribulation of Israel by the Antichrist (Ezekiel 38:11).

Author’s note: In this verse, Gog says, “I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, who live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates, to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.” How can the remnant of Israel who have escaped the Antichrist at the midpoint of the Tribulation by fleeing to the mountains (most likely Petra, Jordan), be living securely at the end of the Tribulation? “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days” (Revelation 12:6). Also, see Revelation 12:13-16.

How can Israel have much “spoil, plunder, cattle, and goods” at this time? Most people will just be trying to survive at this point. Matthew 24:22 says, “And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved.”

2. The nations in the two battles do not match. The Gog-Magog Battle involves the nations of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Russia, Turkey, Iran, Sudan, Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Algeria, and Tunisia against Israel (Ezekiel 38:1-6). The references to Armageddon include every nation from across the entire earth set against Israel (Joel 3:2; Zephaniah 3:8; Zechariah 12:3; 14:2).

Author’s note: I understand that at the end of Ezekiel 38:6 it says, “many peoples are with you,” but not “And all the nations of the earth will gather against it,” as Zechariah 12:3 stipulates.

3. The locations described in the two battles do not match. Armageddon takes place in the valley of Jezreel by the plain of Megiddo (Judges 5:19; 2 Kings 23:29; 2 Chronicles 35:22; Zechariah 12:11). Ezekiel describes the Gog-Magog Battle as taking place on the “mountains of Israel” (Ezekiel 38:8 NKJV).

Author’s note: I know the term “mountains of Israel” can be used in a general sense, meaning “the land of Israel,” however, Ezekiel 39:2 stipulates the Gog invasion will come from the north. If the ultimate destination of this army is Jerusalem, they would have to travel through the actual mountains of Israel, which extend the length of the country, beginning at the southern point of the Valley of Jezreel and continuing southward until they end around Jerusalem. This may also explain why they travel primarily on horseback.

Also, in Ezekiel 38:6, 38:15, & 39:2, the invaders are said to come from the “yerekah tsaphon,” which is translated in many versions as the “uttermost north” or the “far north.” Turkey lies north of Jerusalem, whereas Russia lies in the “uttermost north” of Jerusalem.

4. The leaders of the armies are not the same. Gog is the prince and ruler of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal (Ezekiel 38:3). The invading leader at Armageddon is the Beast who controls the whole earth (Revelation 13). While it is known that Satan possesses the Antichrist, it is unknown if Gog is possessed by Satan (Revelation 13:2).

5. The armies find themselves fighting two different opponents. The Gog-Magog invaders look to conquer a peaceful and unsuspecting Israel (Ezekiel 38:11). The Armageddon invaders gather to make war against the returned King—Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:19).

Author’s note: Dr. Fruchtenbaum says the purpose of the Armageddon campaign is to wipe out the Jews, while the purpose of the Gog invasion is to take a spoil. However, to take a spoil probably means destroying Israel.

6. The accounts of the defeat of the invaders do not match. The Gog-Magog invaders are defeated by God, who uses “flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone,” as well as infighting (Ezekiel 38:21-22 NKJV). The invading nations at Armageddon are defeated by Jesus, who uses “a sharp sword” from His mouth, meaning mere words or sounds (Revelation 19:15 NKJV).

7. Ezekiel describes several nations protesting why the Gog-Magog invasion is happening (Ezekiel 38:13). At Armageddon, all the nations of the world are involved in the invasion of Israel, and none protest (Joel 3:2; Zephaniah 3:8; Zachariah 12:3; 14:2).

8. Ezekiel describes Israel burning the invading enemy’s weapons for seven years (Ezekiel 39:9). Placing the Gog-Magog Battle at the end of the Tribulation would push the burning right into the Millennial Kingdom. With Jesus then present to provide everyone’s needs, the curse partially lifted, and the earth reformatted by earthquakes, there would be no need for Israel to have to burn any weapons.

Author’s note: I would add that they would also be burying the dead for seven months (Ezekiel 39:12) into the Millennial Kingdom. As I stated before, Gog and his hordes will be buried in Israel. In contrast, the Antichrist will be captured and thrown alive into the Lake of Fire.

Also, after the Armageddon campaign, the people will not have to bury many people (or bones) as in the Gog invasion. I would imagine that the earthquakes mentioned in Zechariah and Revelation will swallow many bodies, as in the days of the Exodus when the earth swallowed up Korah and company (Numbers 16:31-33). That’s God’s way of burying bodies. At the time of the Second Coming, the Land will undergo some tremendous geographical and topographical changes (see Revelation 16:18-20 & Zechariah 14:4-5). After the most immense earthquake in history (Revelation 16:18), Jerusalem and the Millennial Temple will be elevated to the top of the highest mountain in the world, according to Isaiah 2:2-4. Micah 4:1-2 also speaks of this high mountain.

At the time of the Second Coming, the Earth will be restored to like-new conditions. Previously, the Church will have enjoyed a seven-year ‘honeymoon’ in Heaven during the time of Daniel’s 70th Week, and will then return to the vicinity of Earth with the Lord for the so-called wedding banquet, which is the Kingdom Age, or Millennium. I find it hard to believe that people will be burning weapons (for seven years) and burying dead bodies for seven months during the wedding banquet.

I think the phrase “new heavens and a new earth” from Rev. 21:1 refers to the renewal of all things mentioned by Jesus in Matt. 19:28 and by Peter in Acts. 3:21. This will happen at the beginning of the millennium when God puts everything back the way it was when He created it. This is because the phrase “new heavens and a new earth” is a direct quote from Isaiah 65:17, where it appears in the context of the millennium, not eternity.

Since Scripture doesn’t specify exactly when the Ezekiel 38-39 invasion will occur, no one can say with absolute certainty when it will happen, so we are left with “best-case scenarios” based on other end-time scripture and prophecies. I think the main reason why Joel Richardson and others believe the Gog invasion occurs at the end of the Tribulation is because of the closing verses of Ezekiel 39 (21-29), especially verse 29, “And I will not hide my face (or presence) anymore from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, declares the Lord God.”

As I stated earlier, I believe this battle/war led by Gog will begin after the pre-tribulation Rapture and before the start of Daniel’s 70th week (the Tribulation). I also believe there are two ‘pourings’ of the Holy Spirit on the Jewish people. The first pouring of the Spirit on the house of Israel occurs after the Gog war and is mentioned in Ezek. 39:25-29. At the time of this war, the majority of Jews will be atheists or agnostics.

The battle of Ezekiel 38-39 will open Israel’s eyes to God. “From that day forward, the people of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God” (Ezekiel 39:22). This supernatural victory will bring them back into their Old Covenant relationship with Yahweh Elohim, sparking a worldwide return of Jews to the “mountains of Israel.” It will also initiate a desire to rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem. God will also use this battle to make His name known among the nations, and they will know that the Lord is the Holy One of Israel, who defeated the false god, Allah.

Ezekiel 36:20-21 makes it clear that Israel’s eviction from the land is what caused the Lord’s name to be profaned among the nations. After Ezekiel’s Battle, that will no longer be the case, because the Lord will bring them all back, not leaving any behind (Ezekiel 39:28).

This first pouring of the Spirit of Ezekiel 39:29 is basically a fulfillment of what God told Ezekiel to prophesy to “the mountains of Israel” back in Chapter 36, “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules“ (Ezekiel 36: 26-27). Notice how this verse is worded regarding statutes and rules. This refers to the Covenant of the Law (that God made with Israel through Moses), which will be nationally reinstated during the last seven years of Daniel’s 70th week (Daniel 9:24, 27).

Ezekiel spoke and wrote these (nearly) exact words in Chapter 20, when God gave him a history of Israel’s rebellion. “And I said to their children in the wilderness, ‘Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor keep their rules, nor defile yourselves with their idols. I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and be careful to obey my rules, and keep my Sabbaths holy that they may be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’ But the children rebelled against me. They did not walk in my statutes and were not careful to obey my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; they profaned my Sabbaths” (Ezekiel 20:18-21).

The second pouring of God’s Spirit on the house of Israel will occur after the Campaign of Armageddon, when Jesus returns to the earth to destroy Israel’s enemies and save the remnant of His people. The prayer of Habakkuk is prophetic, for it records in vision what can only be the Second Coming. And what a glorious vision it is! Jesus says in Matthew 23:39, “For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” Habakkuk’s prayer in Habakkuk 3 records the moment the Jews call on “the one who comes in the name of the LORD.”

“The chapter opens with the pleading of the Remnant (v.2) to save them physically (revive your works) and spiritually (in wrath remember mercy). In answer to the Remnant’s request, God is viewed as coming from Edom with all His shining glory (vv. 3-4). He will begin to render judgment against the gathered nations by various means (vv. 5-7). Nature will also be significantly affected by the Second Coming (vv. 8-10), as will the terrestrial heavenly sphere (v. 11).

The Messiah is next viewed as marching in indignation and threshing the nations (v.12) on behalf of the people of Israel (v. 13a). The head of the armies, the Antichrist, will be smitten (v.13b), as well as the soldiers of his armies (vv. 14-15) who have come to scatter the Jews afresh. Verse 16 gives the timing of this battle the LORD fights in: “Yet I will quietly wait for the day of trouble to come upon people who invade us.

So, at the sixth stage of the Campaign of Armageddon, Jesus will return at the request of Israel and enter into battle with the Antichrist and his armies. With His return to the Remnant of Israel in Bozrah, He will indeed save the tents of Judah first, before saving the Jews of Jerusalem, as Zechariah 12:7 predicted.” {4} The Footsteps of the Messiah by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Also, see Psalm 18:8-16, which describes in graphic detail the Second Coming of Christ in which He wages war against His enemies. He will come with the wrath of God riding upon a cherub (with horse-like features).

After the Second Coming, the second pouring of God’s Spirit on the house of Israel is recorded in Zechariah 12:10, “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.” I believe this will occur on a future Day of Atonement. Notice how this pouring of the Spirit is worded as “a spirit of grace and mercy.“ This is the New Covenant of grace (by faith), first initiated when Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world.

After Jesus died, was resurrected, and ascended to heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit to his disciples on Pentecost. “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts 2:4). These disciples were nearly all Jews. This was a special pouring of God’s Holy Spirit upon these followers of Jesus. Later, those who became ‘Christians’ (both Jew and Gentile), who believed Jesus died for their sins and rose from the grave, were permanently indwelt with the Holy Spirit...and so it is to this day.

Peter spoke up on Pentecost and told the Jews that this was a partial fulfillment of the prophet Joel, who recorded God’s word, “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call” (Joel 2:28-32).

The New Covenant for the Jews was first mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah. “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more ” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

After the Campaign of Armageddon, the LORD will pour out His Spirit of grace and mercy upon the surviving faithful Jews (and faithful remnant Gentiles), who can now enter their Messiah’s Kingdom, as the six conditions of Daniel 9:24 have finally been satisfied. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

That's a lot to take in and read, but I will say this. Any Bible created after the KJV is based on false manuscripts so any, or all, of them cannot be counted on as being accurate in their renderings.

That said, many times I'll fall back on the Geneva Bible. It was widely used before the KJV came on the scene, and was the Bible came over with the first settlers in America.

In that version, 38:2 reads, "Sonne of man, set thy face against Gog, and against the lande of Magog, the chiefe prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophecie against him." Please excuse the old English but I copy and pasted from the original version. To me, it looks like Ezekiel is prophesying against one, maybe two, men, Gog and Magog, and not necessarily a mass of land or a nation in that first part of the prophesy.

I know all that did was probably confuse the issue at hand, but this is one prophesy that I believe that we won't truly know the true scope of until we get to the other side.

Here’s a possible interpretation of the Gog-Magog prophecy.

Gog is Hitler and Magog is Moscow (Stalin).

Other interpretations seem to join Gog and Magog, as in, Gog the leader of Magog. That could fit Putin and Moscow today.

But the Jews have already returned to Israel. That fits the World War II paradigm better.

What if all Biblical prophecy has a dual nature, end times before the thousand years and before the eternal Kingdom?

And what if the thousand years signified a spiritual kingdom that lasted either a thousand years, or was at a millenium (such as 2000). That could allow a Gog-Magog battle, a spiritual kingdom, a second rebellion (Satan let out of the bottomless pit) and an eventual permanent end to Satan’s power (clearly not yet fulfilled so we cannot be that far into any possible timetable).

Most Christians I have met think we have not seen the thousand years yet, let alone that final end time at the end of the thousand years. But if it was a spiritual kingdom, it might have come and is therefore now in its final stages.

There are many other aspects of World War II besides Gog-Magog that can be tied to Biblical prophecy so I have come to the conclusion that the timetable is entirely figurative, the thousand year kingdom is the modern free world since 1945 and the opening of the bottomless pit began in 2001 and has reached its climax now. Trump could be Michael in this imagery. While millions await the events they associate with the start of the thousand years, in fact we may discover that these events transform into those they would expect to witness after the thousand years.

Of course I can prove none of this. Jesus Christ (when He returns) could enlighten us. He may arrive to start the thousand years, or He may tell us that the thousand years came and now ended with the tribulation and His return in power and glory.

One thing is certain, with two separate end times, it presents a big challenge to separate out which Biblical images belong before and after the thousand years. Or does every image have a double fulfilment in both end times?

Again, I have no way of knowing, and I believe that many who give very certain interpretations right up to the 666 branding by a businessman from Brussels sort of certainties are relying on 90% of 90% of 90% ... over many cycles ... of prophetic interpretation in American evangelical circles, never involving any one weak link, but like a giant house of cards, doomed to fail at some point. I believe that what most evangelicals have been taught and what they would then repeat, amounts to a theory without any real Biblical foundation at all. This is how we got from a clearly figurative image to the Rapture with spacecraft whisking the faithful out of harm’s way. That was never meant to be conveyed and it’s not going to happen, or better yet, it didn’t happen at the time which could have been 2021-2024.

Unless there was more going on than I read about here, I don’t watch mainstream TV news anyway.

This is a large part of the vision quest too, I have believed for quite some time that we were in this part of Biblical prophecy, which is a lot further along than the traditional timetable saying we are approaching the tribulation, possibly also the Rapture, then the thousand year kingdom. Few (but some) agree with me that we have seen some of those and are now approaching a more permanent dispensation, the Kingdom of God.

I don’t know if some have managed to formulate a belief in both being simultaneous, that the thousand year kingdom is also the eternal kingdom. That’s not what is stated quite explicitly in Revelation(s) but it does allow one to avoid any uncertainty about which end time is related to which Biblical prophecy — they all relate to both at the same time in that view.

Anyway, I will be on this vision quest more directly soon, as I hope to travel to selected wilderness locations that have proven to be spiritually welcoming in the past. I am still at home for another week or so, and will be doing that in mid-February. If anything interesting happens I will relate them after the 26th. But maybe I won’t need to, we may all be finding out at the same time. I believe something very significant is going to happen soon. An attack on Iran could be it, Daniel after all saw all his visions in Persia.

I would be genuinely interested to know, what do others perceive will happen in specific regard to the return to Christ? Does Jesus appear before the thousand years and reign in a phyiscal sense (I would say has reigned already in a spiritual sense).

If you believe Jesus will reign in a physical sense during the thousand years, then does He remain present during the “little season” at the end of the thousand years? Or does He disappear for a time while forces fight it out, and return for the eternal Kingdom?

In other words, are there two events that are both Second Coming like? Or just one after a thousand years of spiritual rule?

If people believe that latter scenario, the Second Coming imagery must be after the thousand years.

I would have to add, while a thousand years is pretty specific in a literalist Scriptural interpretation, the matter was open to interpretation when we were told in the NT that for God, a thousand years is like unto a day, in other words, that same time period is deliberately identified as potentially allegorical (we could assume the thousand year kingdom would not last just one day).

And there are so many other parts of Biblical prophecy that are clearly allegorical and not literal. So why should the thousand years (or the Rapture) be any different?

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