[Catholic Caucus] Rome’s Latin Mass Concessions Come With Conditions

Hiraeth In Exile Hiraeth In Exile ^ | October 22, 2025 | Chris Jackson

[ebb tide]

[Catholic Caucus] Rome’s Latin Mass Concessions Come With Conditions

It’s a familiar pattern by now: every “concession” from Rome arrives with a leash attached. Every word of compassion conceals a doctrinal condition. Every token nod toward tradition serves to remind you who is boss. This week’s Vatican stories form a single portrait of the post-conciliar Church: a faith administered on parole, a mercy that demands ideological compliance, and a gospel repackaged as therapy.

The Latin Mass on Parole

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The headlines sounded merciful: “Vatican grants two-year extension for Latin Mass in Cleveland.”

The faithful in Akron and Cleveland exhaled, grateful that the Mass of their forefathers had not been stamped out entirely. Yet the truth came, as it always does, not from Rome but from a parish email leaked to social media.

The bishop, it turns out, had asked for five years. He was granted two—and only on the condition that the clergy “lead the faithful attached to the anterior ritual form towards full appreciation and acceptance of the liturgical books renewed by decree of the Second Vatican Council.” The Vatican even recommended that one of the traditional Masses be replaced by a Novus Ordo in Latin.

So the “extension” is really an ultimatum: learn to love Vatican II or lose your Mass. The faithful are allowed to kneel only long enough to be re-educated. The Old Rite survives, not as a legitimate expression of the Roman faith, but as a behavioral-correction program. This is not mercy; it’s management. It’s the same technique used with every dissenting remnant: appease, isolate, retrain, and eventually dissolve.

The post-conciliar Church never simply forbids; it “accompanies” you until you stop resisting.

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The Old Rite survives, not as a legitimate expression of the Roman faith, but as a behavioral-correction program. This is not mercy; it’s management. It’s the same technique used with every dissenting remnant: appease, isolate, retrain, and eventually dissolve.

Not much difference from the "re-education" camps that the atheist Chicoms put arrested underground Catholic priests through.

[ebb tide]

Ping

[alternatives?]

The Pope seems dogmatic. Sometime you become what you accuse others of being.

[ebb tide]

The Pope seems dogmatic. Sometime you become what you accuse others of being.

ROTFLOL!

Do you even know what "dogmatic" means?

[alternatives?]

Do you think the pope is not wedded to Vatican 2?

[ebb tide]

Do you think VC II is dogmatic or pastoral?

[ebb tide]

From a general audience given by Paul VI on January 12, 1966. At that time, Paul spoke as follows:

There are those who ask what authority, what theological qualification the Council intended to give to its teachings, knowing that it avoided issuing solemn dogmatic definitions engaging the infallibility of the ecclesiastical Magisterium. The answer is known by whoever remembers the conciliar declaration of March 6, 1964, repeated on November 16, 1964: given the Council’s pastoral character, it avoided pronouncing, in an extraordinary manner, dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility.

[CdMGuy]

Leo is simply a thinner, better dressed and less obnoxious version of Francis. Eighty percent of the voting members of the College of Cardinals were appointed by Francis. To expect a more Traditional Catholic Pope from those voters was pure folly.

Plus, neither of these two Popes did, or are doing, anything to eliminate the sexual perversion behavior of far too many priests, Bishops, Archbishop and Cardinals. It is long past time to clean house but do not hold your breath thinking that Leo will ever do it.

[Trump_Triumphant]

The modernist Vatican is determined to destroy the old Mass.

[irishjuggler]

Taylor Marshall pointed it out a couple weeks ago... Prevost thinks he’s got the perfect “solution” to the trad problem... and that solution is a gussied-up Latin Novus Ordo with old-school rubrics of kneeling for communion, smells-and-bells etc. It’s a shame to say this, because the trad-ified Novus Ordo would indeed be an improvement over the regular Novus Ordo, but it’s nothing more than a trap intended to wean us off the TLM. It MUST be totally rejected for that reason.

[NKP_Vet]

The Church has not had a real pope in yours. Not since B16. Bergoglio and
now Prevost, who takes his orders from a dead man. Bergoglio hated the TLM so Prevost hates it. Bergoglio loved catering to sodomites so Prevost caters to them. Bergoglio hated President Trump for controlling America’s border so Prevost hates him for the same thing. Both of these heretics could care less about the doctrine of the faith. To them everything can be changed. What I do to keep from going crazy is ignore them. I go to a Catholic Church that ignores whatever comes out of the Vatican unless it is 1000% inline with established Catholic doctrine.

[Cronos]

i’ve participated in mass across multiple countries and languages with many different priests - some great, some terrible, most mediocre.

But ultimately these ministrant priests don’t “make” the mass. Their sermons are nice to hear (though with Bishop Barron I can now hear top notch sermons), but the Word of God (Jesus) is what matters.

What keeps me sane is knowing that I head for mass for the High Priest present on the altar - the High Priest and perfect sacrifice - Jesus.

Whether we have a good or bad pope, bishop or priest is irrelevant to the fact that we have the High Priest with us in His Church, His community

[Cronos]

CdMGuy - have you read the motu proprio Vos estis lux mundi (2019) which set up universal norms for bishops and religious superiors about reporting sexual abuse and cover-up.

Even if so much has already been accomplished, we must continue to learn from the bitter lessons of the past, looking with hope towards the future.

This responsibility falls, above all, on the successors of the Apostles, chosen by God to be pastoral leaders of his People, and demands from them a commitment to follow closely the path of the Divine Master. Because of their ministry, in fact, Bishops, “as vicars and legates of Christ, govern the particular churches entrusted to them by their counsel, ....

Taking into account the provisions that may be adopted by the respective Episcopal Conferences, by the Synods of the Bishops of the Patriarchal Churches and the Major Archiepiscopal Churches, or by the Councils of Hierarchs of the Metropolitan Churches sui iuris, the Dioceses or the Eparchies, individually or together, must establish within a year from the entry into force of these norms, one or more public, stable and easily accessible systems for submission of reports, even through the institution of a specific ecclesiastical office. The Dioceses and the Eparchies shall inform the Pontifical Representative of the establishment of the systems referred to in this paragraph.

... Any person can submit a report concerning the conduct referred to in article 1, using the methods referred to in the preceding article, or by any other appropriate means.

you could argue that it's not gone far enough, but it is definitely not "nothing"

[Cronos]

CdMGuy - While the high proportion of Francis-appointed cardinals is accurate, the logic that they must produce a certain ideological result (e.g., a “Traditional Catholic Pope”) is speculative. Cardinals are not simply “voting as the pope who appointed them” and their voting behaviour is complex.

People expected Pizzaballa or other liberal cardinals to get the papacy, but they forget that the Papacy doesn’t really follow the ways of a republic.

We need to keep hope and believe that the Holy Spirit will continue to guide and keep the Church INSPITE of the bad bishops - as He did during the Borgia papacy.