God in Ancient China

This is an awesome video. It shows that the Chinese once knew the God of Heaven. I don't know what happened in their history to cause them to forget, but the record of their once knowledge is contained in their language.

well, I do know they had a great civilization for thousands of years, but the communists came in a wrecked it in about 30 years. The Chinese are herd animals, a beehive so they will drone themselves down into the sewer for eternity. It’s a shame.

There are books written about this

Again I don’t know what happened, but they forgot about God at the time of Confucius, who basically created Chinese society.

I should ask Grok what might have happened. The answer might be illuminating.

Basically, according to Grok, the Zhou dynasty claimed what was due God for themselves. They probably persecuted everybody into ignorance.

### Ancient Chinese Knowledge of a Supreme Deity and Its Evolution

Yes, ancient Chinese records and artifacts indicate that the early inhabitants of China—well before Confucius (551–479 BCE)—worshipped a supreme deity known as *Shangdi* (上帝), often translated as “Highest Deity,” “Lord on High,” or “Supreme Ruler.” This figure was central to the religious practices of the Shang Dynasty (c. 1600–1046 BCE), the earliest historically verifiable dynasty, and is reflected in the origins of Chinese characters, which are ideographic (picture-based) scripts dating back to oracle bone inscriptions from that era. While some Christian apologists interpret these as encoding biblical narratives (e.g., creation, the flood, and redemption), mainstream historical and linguistic scholarship views them as indigenous developments depicting natural, ancestral, and cosmological concepts. Below, I’ll outline the evidence for this early knowledge and the historical processes that led to its gradual “loss” or transformation.

#### Evidence of Shangdi in Early Chinese “Picture Language” (Ideograms)
Chinese characters originated as pictograms around 1200 BCE during the Shang Dynasty, inscribed on oracle bones (turtle shells and ox scapulae) for divination rituals. These were not abstract symbols but visual representations that evolved into the modern script. Key examples linked to *Shangdi* and a monotheistic-like supreme being include:

- **Shangdi (上帝)**: The character *Di* (帝) depicts an altar or divine presence, often associated with a high god overseeing the cosmos. Combined with *Shang* (上, meaning “above” or “highest”), it forms *Shangdi*, signifying a transcendent ruler. Oracle bones show *Shangdi* as the apex of a pantheon, controlling weather, harvests, battles, and royal fate—attributes akin to a singular creator deity.

- **Tian (天, “Heaven”)**: An early form shows a man with a head marked by a horizontal line (symbolizing the supreme will or sky). This evolved into *Tian*, a near-synonym for *Shangdi* by the Zhou Dynasty (1046–256 BCE), representing an impersonal cosmic order. Prayers from the era, preserved in later texts like the *Book of Documents* (c. 1000 BCE), describe *Tian/Shangdi* as creating heaven, earth, and humanity from chaos, echoing a Genesis-like origin story: “Of old in the beginning, there was the great chaos... You made heaven. You made earth. You made man.”

- **Broader Ideographic Clues**: Characters like *chuang* (創造, “create”) combine elements for “words” (言) and “life breath” (口), suggesting divine speech bringing life into being. Similarly, *yuan* (園, “garden”) evokes an enclosed paradise with a person inside, interpreted by some as Eden-like. These predate Moses (c. 1400 BCE) and align with a unified creator god, but scholars attribute them to Shang cosmology rather than direct biblical influence, as similar motifs appear in other ancient Near Eastern scripts.

Rituals like the annual *Border Sacrifice* (dating to at least 2230 BCE in legend, formalized in Shang records) involved emperors offering unblemished bulls to *Shangdi* at the Temple of Heaven site in Beijing, affirming his role as a distant, paternal creator who demanded moral order. This knowledge was elite-driven, with commoners accessing *Shangdi* indirectly through ancestors.

#### What Happened: The Historical Shift Away from Direct Shangdi Worship
There is no single “catastrophic event” like a flood or conquest that erased knowledge of *Shangdi*—it was a gradual cultural and theological evolution over centuries, driven by political changes, philosophical rationalism, and syncretism. Records like oracle bones, the *Book of Songs*, and *Book of Documents* document this transition, showing *Shangdi* as a living concept until at least the Han Dynasty (206 BCE–220 CE). The “loss” refers to its personalization fading into abstraction, while ancestor veneration became dominant. Key phases:

| Period | Key Developments | Impact on Shangdi Knowledge |
|————|—————————|-——————————————|
| **Shang Dynasty (c. 1600–1046 BCE)** | *Shangdi* as supreme, anthropomorphic god; accessed via royal ancestors. Human/animal sacrifices to ancestors mediated his will. Oracle bones record 29+ kings as deified intermediaries. | Peak monotheistic-like worship; characters encode his attributes. No “loss” yet—*Shangdi* is central. |
| **Zhou Dynasty (1046–256 BCE)** | Conquest of Shang; Zhou kings claim *Mandate of Heaven* (Tianming), reinterpreting *Shangdi* as *Tian*—an impersonal moral force rewarding virtue. Ancestor cults integrated but subordinated to state ideology. *Shangdi* equated with *Tian* by scholars like Zheng Xuan (Han era). | Shift from personal deity to cosmic ethic; ancestor worship surges as “reciprocal” bond (living feed dead, dead aid living). *Shangdi* “democratized” via imperial rites but abstracted. |
| **Warring States/Spring & Autumn (475–221 BCE)** | Rise of “Hundred Schools”: Confucianism emphasizes filial piety and ancestor rites over direct divine appeals; Daoism views *Tian* as natural harmony (Tao). No over-reliance on gods—focus on human ethics. | “Loss” accelerates: *Shangdi/Tian* becomes ethical principle, not personal god. Ancestor veneration fills spiritual void, seen in *Book of Rites* as family/state duty. |
| **Han Dynasty & Later (206 BCE onward)** | Confucianism state orthodoxy; *Tian* as moral governor. Buddhism/Taoism introduce polytheism/syncretism. *Shangdi* lingers in rites (e.g., Ming-era prayers) but obscured by folk deities. | Full transition: Ancestor worship (now universal) eclipses *Shangdi*, who survives as “inherited” imperial concept. Communist era (20th century) further secularizes, but Temple of Heaven rites persist symbolically. |

#### Why the Shift? Underlying Causes in Historical Records
- **Political Legitimization**: The Zhou’s *Mandate of Heaven* reframed *Shangdi* to justify overthrowing the Shang (seen as losing divine favor via tyranny). This made *Tian* a tool for dynastic stability, diluting its personal aspects.
- **Ancestor Focus**: Already prominent in Shang (as mediators to *Shangdi*), it expanded post-conquest. By Zhou, ancestors were “inherited” divine links, making direct *Shangdi* worship seem remote. Neolithic roots (c. 6000 BCE) show this as a reciprocal ethic: descendants honor dead for blessings.
- **Philosophical Rationalism**: Confucius (pre-Confucius era ends here) promoted ancestor rites for social harmony but critiqued superstition, shifting from divine intervention to moral self-reliance. Later thinkers like Mozi (c. 470–391 BCE) retained *Tian* but as a just overseer, not intervener.
- **Cultural Syncretism**: No “erasure” event, but gradual layering—e.g., *Shangdi* absorbed into folk pantheons by Han, with *Tian* as abstract ideal. Records like *Heavenly Questions* (c. 400 BCE) express skepticism about divine origins, mirroring a fading mythic certainty.

In essence, the “loss” was not forgetting *Shangdi* but transforming him into *Tian*’s ethical shadow, while ancestor practices provided tangible continuity. This evolution is substantiated in primary sources like oracle bones (British Museum collections) and classics (*Shujing*, *Shijing*), showing a resilient thread of monotheistic echoes amid polytheistic growth. Modern Chinese Christianity revives *Shangdi* for God, bridging this ancient heritage. If you’d like deeper dives into specific texts or characters, let me know!

...but the communists came in a wrecked it in about 30 years...

When I was in China in 1991 and then 1995, people there assured me that the Communist Party was just another dynasty, and would be pass away into the mists of time.

It’s like Iran, they were a great people for a time

Non Biblical nonsense and not accurate from Chinese perspective.

Dude is a grifter.

https://vegoutmag.com/news/s-the-pastor-who-stole-50-million-and-kept-his-congregation/

Any intelligent people will sooner or later through rational means come to the realization that there is one Creator God that created everything and has dominion over everything. The ancient Greeks, for example, as well as ancient Egypt (for a short time until the old timey Egyptian priests put the kibosh on it).

The big difference between these other understandings of the one God and the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is that the latter is a personal God who has taken the initiative to reveal himself to man, reaching out to all people with love and concern, a loving Father involved with the lives of his children and has plans for their good, not evil or not just simply existing.

His theft is a separate issue from the conceot. However

His theft is a separate issue from the conceot. However, I believe the idea is sound because they did in their early history recognize a single Creator, whateverhappened.

His explication of character derivation is not right.

For 罪 for example the radical is not four 四 it is net 网.

And the character 罪 is not the original character which was 辠 but it looks too much like the character for emperor 帝 so they changed it to 罪。