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Is Death the Punishment for Sin? Nah . . .
Ligonier Ministries | 2025

Posted on 10/01/2025 10:13:49 AM PDT by aspasia

The 2025 Ligonier Ministries State of Theology survey (conducted with LifeWay Research) found that 36% of U.S. evangelicals reject the statement “Everyone is born innocent in the eyes of God”, implying they affirm original sin (born in a state of guilt and corruption due to Adam's fall). This is the closest indicator, as belief in original sin directly entails death as its consequence (e.g., spiritual and physical separation from God). Conversely, 64% affirmed born innocence, denying original sin and its effects like death.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; Theology
KEYWORDS: christianteaching
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1 posted on 10/01/2025 10:13:49 AM PDT by aspasia
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To: aspasia

Romans 5:12 begs to differ with the 64%.


2 posted on 10/01/2025 10:20:45 AM PDT by tcox4575
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To: aspasia

Regardless, we all sin and, unless we repent of it, believe that Jesus died to take our punishment, and are baptized, we will suffer spiritual death - eternal separation from God.


3 posted on 10/01/2025 10:23:25 AM PDT by Quality_Not_Quantity ("...for the sake of His name." Psalm 23:3)
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To: aspasia
So now God's Truth is subject to studies and surveys?

Give me a break.

4 posted on 10/01/2025 10:23:37 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux - The Ultimate Windows Service Pack )
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To: aspasia

I don’t believe this is an accurate way to describe any of their results.

Every human is born capable of sin and into a sinful world and will have human death. I believe all Christians believe this.

Sins we commit from omission or commission, require some level of knowledge and capability. A one-day old child cannot technically commit such sins.

The Ligonier question conflates these.

“Does God condemn infants to Hell?” That should be the question.


5 posted on 10/01/2025 10:25:58 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: aspasia

An irrelevant distinction, interesting only to those who insist on dividing on minor points of theology. All still need the grace of Christ, as all still sin regardless of their condition at birth.


6 posted on 10/01/2025 10:26:02 AM PDT by fluffy
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To: fluffy

Really? So you don’t need no bloody forgiveness, just forgiveness?


7 posted on 10/01/2025 10:31:23 AM PDT by aspasia
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To: fluffy
Agreed. Another thing is that most Christians believe in original sin (we're all sinners and need the blood of Jesus), yet most also believe that infants who die go to Heaven because they don't yet know sin.

But the article makes it out like there's a huge disconnect between two groups of Christians.

8 posted on 10/01/2025 10:35:51 AM PDT by Tell It Right (1 Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Tell It Right

You could research yourself . . . what percentage of Western Christians believe that death is the consequence of sin? It would seem that most secular people will say there is absolutely no connection, that death is a biological event/concept, period.


9 posted on 10/01/2025 10:40:30 AM PDT by aspasia
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To: ConservativeMind

I agree. Really bad question


10 posted on 10/01/2025 10:40:42 AM PDT by Dartoid
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To: Dartoid
And the right question is?

It was my question to grok and it sent me to this survey.

11 posted on 10/01/2025 10:43:40 AM PDT by aspasia
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To: aspasia

Unfortunately, Jesus had yet to be lectured by Calvinistic ministers —

“But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”


12 posted on 10/01/2025 10:49:21 AM PDT by odawg
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To: Quality_Not_Quantity

Regardless, we all sin and, unless we repent of it, believe that Jesus died to take our punishment, and are baptized, we will suffer spiritual death - eternal separation from God.-——————————————
you used that word repent...........................


13 posted on 10/01/2025 10:49:45 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued, but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere)
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To: aspasia

The problem is not the question, but the implications that Ligonier draws from them. They say that original sin is “born in a state of guilt and corruption due to Adam’s fall”, but this isn’t the definition of original sin. It is only the Augustinian interpretation of original sin that includes “guilt”, while the non-Augustinian interpretation keeps “corruption” but rejects “guilt”. Also, Ligonier misstates the born innocence position, assuming that rejecting imputed guilt also rejects the death that came through Adam’s sin.

Speaking theologically, there is no conflict between a belief in the corruption and death via the curse brought by Adam’s sin, and a rejection of the idea of imputed sin which requires that all infants be born already guilty of sin.


14 posted on 10/01/2025 10:51:54 AM PDT by fluffy
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To: aspasia

The right question is, why would anybody ask the idiotic Grok a question on matters of faith instead of just picking up a Bible?


15 posted on 10/01/2025 10:52:01 AM PDT by Sirius Lee ("Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”)
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To: aspasia

Let’s see your answer to what the question ought to be.

Does God condemn infants to Hell?


16 posted on 10/01/2025 10:55:45 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: aspasia

I believe that death is the grace for sin.

God wants us to be in a pure relationship with Him - like it was at first in the Garden of Eden. Once sin entered the world He gave us a way out (death) of that sinful world, and through Jesus gives us an opportunity to once again be with Him in a pure relationship.

The punishment of sin is men having to toil at work (it was meant to be enjoyable at first) and for women to have pains at childbirth. Plus of course all of the crap we have to put up with in life because of a sinful world, and the problems caused by our own sins.


17 posted on 10/01/2025 10:56:56 AM PDT by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant - Never Fearful)
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To: odawg

“Unfortunately, Jesus had yet to be lectured by Calvinistic ministers —”

That’s why I don’t say, “I follow Paul, or I follow Apollos, (or Calvin, or Jacobus Arminius, or RC Sproul, or John MacArthur...”)


18 posted on 10/01/2025 11:00:16 AM PDT by Quality_Not_Quantity ("...for the sake of His name." Psalm 23:3)
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To: fluffy

My fault for posting a bot’s take. And why follow Augustine? In any case, obviously death is the consequence of sin, and that’s what I was curious about. I mean, both Evangelicals and Catholics believe that as a matter of doctrine. And I wanted to know how many people actually believe that their own churches doctrine. Answer is?


19 posted on 10/01/2025 11:02:57 AM PDT by aspasia
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To: Sirius Lee

I find an AI bot is pretty efficient to provide information that is not in the Bible. The bots can be wrong but they are fast.


20 posted on 10/01/2025 11:04:30 AM PDT by aspasia
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