Posted on 03/04/2025 3:47:50 PM PST by ebb tide
In recent years, participation in the Holy Mass in the Archdiocese of Tours has increased significantly. According to statements by Archbishop Vincent Jordy, the president of the Commission for Catechesis and Catechumenate for the French Episcopal Conference, the number of faithful attending Mass in Tours has doubled in four years. However, his observations are not limited to a simple acknowledgment of the phenomenon; they reveal a hostile attitude towards this growth, as it primarily involves support for the Traditional Latin Mass.
Speaking to La Nouvelle République, Archbishop Jordy described the increase in faithful attending Mass in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite as a “traditionalist phenomenon,” which he claimed originated from the COVID-19 crisis. He attributed this growth to “anxiety among people” and “a retreat into oneself.” The prelate also suggested that participation in the Traditional Latin Mass has been used by many faithful as a form of protest against restrictions and even state institutions.
While it cannot be denied that many Catholics experienced the denial of sacraments during the pandemic as an act of injustice, it is reductive to claim that adherence to the traditional liturgy is merely a political rebellion. What truly attracts many faithful (especially young people) to the Traditional Latin Mass is the beauty and dignity of the rite, as well as its continuity with the Church’s Tradition. In the diocese of Tours, three Masses in the ancient rite are celebrated on weekends at the church of Saint-Pierre-Ville, as well as two monthly celebrations at L’île-Bouchard. The Society of St. Pius X (FSSPX) also celebrates the Traditioal Latin Mass in Tours, at the church of Saint-Grégoire-des-Minimes. Interest in the Traditional Mass is more alive than ever.
What stands out is Archbishop Jordy’s attitude towards this ecclesial reality. He distinguishes between “fundamentalists” (FSSPX) and “traditionalists” (the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter or FSSP), a categorization that reflects a very critical view of both these communities. Furthermore, the prelate does not hesitate to issue “warnings” to the FSSP priest within the interview, openly declaring that he is ready to take punitive measures, as has happened in other French dioceses.
“I have discussed this Mass several times with Pope Francis,” the archbishop declared.
Jordy has not limited himself to merely expressing concerns about the growth of the Traditional Latin Mass; he has also taken concrete measures to limit its spread. According to reports by La Paix Liturgique, the Archbishop of Tours has banned the FSSP from administering adult baptisms and has imposed a new liturgy for infant baptisms. Additionally, Jordy has introduced restrictions on confessions, reducing the hours in which priests can hear them. These interventions seem to be part of a strategy to marginalize gradually the traditional liturgy despite the growing demand from the faithful.
READ: Help bring one nun’s vision to life: A Carmelite monastery with the traditional Latin Mass
It is particularly significant that Jordy has also targeted individual priests. He criticized by name Father Matthieu Raffray, a member of the Institut du Bon Pasteur (Institute of the Good Shepherd), for a comment he made about Jean-Marie Le Pen; Fr. Raffray had said that the late politician was “an often misunderstood prophet.” The archbishop’s attack on Fr. Raffray reveals a concern that goes beyond liturgy and extends even to the control of the social and political positions of priests associated with the Traditional Latin Mass.
“The sermons are not controlled, but I have some aces up my sleeve,” the French prelate said. “I am very attentive. The criteria for judgment are the liturgy and social positions,”
Jordy also argued that the future of the Church will pass through a necessary “renewal of parishes” and pointed to an increase in the number of adult baptisms in the Cathedral of Tours. However, the growth of the Traditional Latin Mass shows a very different trend: more and more faithful, especially young families, find in the traditional liturgy a stable point of reference in a time of ecclesial uncertainty. It is no coincidence that many converts, after discovering the richness of the ancient Mass, choose to attend it more regularly. Jordy’s claim that the FSSP has disproportionate visibility due to “money, connections, and know-how” sounds like an attempt to downplay the phenomenon.The success of the traditional liturgy does not depend on media strategies, but on the intrinsic beauty of the rite and the spiritual depth it offers to the faithful.
The statements and actions of Msgr. Jordy reflect a tension that runs through many French dioceses and beyond: on the one hand, there is a desire of some bishops to limit the spread of the Traditional Latin Mass; on the other, the ancient liturgy is attracting the faithful more and more. The repressive response towards the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite and the communities that celebrate it does not seem to stop the phenomenon but strengthens it instead. The faithful perceive it as an authentic liturgy rooted in the Tradition of the Church.
READ: Scottish nuns say Latin Mass will continue after bishop asks traditional order to leave diocese
Ping
The Traditional Latin Mass has very clear rubrics. Roman Canon (Eucharistic prayer 1) is rich in theological depth is the only one used, so that is key to its strength.
The priest thus does not have the options that the 1970 Missal has, whereby there are 4 Main Eucharistic prayers allowed, of which the Roman Canon (EP 1) is one of them. In addition, there are 2 Adaptions of the Eucharistic prayers that are A) Mass for Reconciliation and B) Masses with lots of children. So that is 6 different prayers, those options result in priests having in my view to much flexibility and thus it creates a situation where the priest can say the mass informally, the music can be banal and just bad Liturgical music, and lead to Liturgical abuses at times.
Fortunately, in my local Diocesan parish, the priest only used the Roman Canon on Sunday and he also chants the entire canon and used incense. Personally, I think the 1970 Missal needs to be reformed, Roman Canon should be the preferred prayer used on Sundays, in particular Lent, Advent, Easter and Christmas season. Eucharistic Prayer III could be used on Sunday Liturgies.
Prayer 2 should be relegated to Dailey Mass only and Eucharistic Prayer 4, which is very fixed is as currently stated in the 1970 Missal, limited when it can be used in the Roman Liturgy given it is largely adapted from an Eastern Liturgy of Saint Basil and has a fixed canon. It can’t be used in Sundays that fall outside Ordinary time (Which I think is a term that needs to be changed as well).
And of course, the 1970 Missal can be celebrated in Latin, or vernacular or Latin and vernacular.
Hope this helps
After the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, the whole way of saying Mass was changed. It was far more than the change from Latin into the vernacular. The whole ”order of Mass” was changed, leaving a very tenuous connection to the Mass as it was celebrated for hundreds of years. Many rich traditions were eliminated. An overly simple liturgical calendar was introduced. And all sorts of liturgical abuses were introduced and became ubiquitous, even over the objection of the popes. The change from Latin to the vernacular was, arguably, one of the least significant changes. At least arguably.
However, there has remained a remnant of priests and bishops who have continued to say Mass according to the way it was said before Vatican II. This form of the Mass is known by various names, such as the Tridentine Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), or the Vetus Ordo. The post Vatican II form of the Mass is what almost all parishes use today, and it is known as the Novus Ordo, or New Oder of Mass.
Jordy’s response is an example of clericalism at its worst. Ironically, Francis has spoken against clericalism but then has weaponized clerics to suppress the church and force secular modernity upon it.
Why didn't you mention the TLM does not allow such novelties as lay readers, extraordinary eucharistic monsters, altar girls, Holy Communion in the paw and on the hoof, new calendar, new sacraments, etc.
For your further edification:
The Traditional Latin Mass Is More Than Just “Mass in Latin”
ebb tide:
I wasn’t downplaying the differences, nor trying to. I just did not want to write a dissertation. The person, by their own admission is not Catholic so no need to get into information overload. I was just trying to make the basic distinctions.
Yes, i am aware of altar girls, Holy Communion in the Hand is allowed. I do not take communion in the hand, but you are aware that it was done so in the early Church. Many Catholic kneel but you I am sure that Canon 20 of the Council of Nicea forbade kneeling for the Eucharist or on Sunday at all. So those 2 things flipped in the TLM, kneeling is the posture and hand not allowed. Not that I have an issue with the Discipline but communion in the hand and no kneeling on Sunday were both the norms back in the 4th century.
As far as the Liturgical calendar, not an issue for me, but yes it is a difference.
Your term new sacraments, I am not sure what you are getting at. There are only 7 Sacraments defined in the Catholic Church.
And I don’t need to be educated on the Traditional Latin Mass, I am 60 years old. I just am not interested in Liturgy Wars per se. The 1970 Missal needs to be Reformed the way SC stated, not what happened in the 1970’s.
Well it seems the guy I was responding to had their post removed, I assume that this is a Catholic only forum which is why. So that is who I was responding to.
This is the measure of a true heretic. He prefers to have the True Mass suppressed rather than collect the revenue from the laity.
Just to begin: no exorcism in the Sacrament of Baptism in the Bogus Ordo.
ebb tide:
Ok, Bogus Ordo, hmmm so are u now one step closer to Sedevacantism? I know u say u are FSSP, but that terminology hmmm.
The revised Rites for baptism still have the rite minor exorcism. But Baptism is and of itself a Sacrament of Grace.
Ok you like the TLM Missal for Baptism, great.
Canon 18 It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great Synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters, whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer. And this also has been made known, that certain deacons now touch the Eucharist even before the bishops. Let all such practices be utterly done away, and let the deacons remain within their own bounds, knowing that they are the ministers of the bishop and the inferiors of the presbyters. Let them receive the Eucharist according to their order, after the presbyters, and let either the bishop or the presbyter administer to them. Furthermore, let not the deacons sit among the presbyters, for that is contrary to canon and order. And if, after this decree, any one shall refuse to obey, let him be deposed from the diaconate.
ebb tide:
Correct, I can play your game. Canon 20 was approved by Rome, no kneeling on Sunday and communion on the hand was the Liturgical norms. Sometime later, a future Pope revised the Liturgical norms, which is precisely my point.
You don’t like the 1970 Rite of Baptism, that is your business, but calling a Rite the Church approved “Bogus Ordo” says to me you are about 1 step away from setting yourself up as your own magisterium.
And Canon 18 is talking about Deacons giving communion to priests and Bishops, which is not correct. We are not talking about giving communion to laity, whereby Bishops, priests and deacons could all do so.
Is that you knee-jerk response to anybody who criticizes freemason Bugnini's mass: they're a sedevacantist?
And in Bergoglio's Rome, the blessing of sodomite couples is now allowed and Holy Communion in the Paw is the liturgical norm .
If you look at the first mass, the last Supper, per Anne Catherine Emmerich, communion was taken on the tongue, directly from the hands of our Redeemer. This has not changed for us, since the priests hands are those of another Christ.
No that is not a knee jerk reaction, calling it Bogus Ordo is a loaded term. There are many who call the TLM a Catholic Pharisee Mass, that is BS as well. I am sure you have heard those who are hyper 1970 Missal only, and want it with vernacular only with all the flexible options for music and Eucharistic prayers, use that terminology to attack the older Roman Missal. I would call that out as well.
Now Do I think there needs to be a Reform of the 1970 Missal, that clearly goes back to the principals of SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM (SC) issued on 4 December 1963, 100% yes.
But as I attend a Diocesan parish that uses the 1970 Missal and does so more in line with what SC actually says, I sort of don’t like a fellow Catholic saying I am receiving Holy Communion in a “Bogus Ordo” Liturgy/Mass.
Why can’t you, using your term “knee jerk reaction” avoid going with that expression.
That is private revelation and is not part of Apostolic Tradition directly revealed by Christ to the Apostles. So, that does not really impact what I think one way or the other.
The NT Gospels of the Last Supper in no way suggest what you are saying likely happened. So sorry, that does not work for me.
Now with that said, I receive communion on the tongue, standing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.