Revelation Ch. 13 and 2 Corinthians Ch. 9

The Holy Bible (KJV) ^

[Faith Presses On]

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

"And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

Revelation 13

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

2 Corinthians 9

1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: 2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many. 3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready: 4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. 5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. 12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; 13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men; 14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you. 15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

[Faith Presses On]

Other versions:

https://biblehub.com/revelation/13.htm

[Cincinnatus.45-70]

Amen.

Thanks, Faith.

[SaveFerris]

(Revelation 13

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.)

-------

The Dragon, that Old Serpent called the Devil and Satan will give the Beast his authority for 7 years.

Tribulation Saints (Revelation 20:4) will NOT submit to him and be Eternally Victorious by the Word of the Lord God Almighty and the Faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.





(lurkers please click on my screen name to see my FR homepage for more information)

[Vlad0]

The father of the Reformation, Martin Luther, who kicked off the creation of the Protestant branch of Christianity, thought very highly of himself, and no so much of the early Christians.

Luther determined that the Christian Bible, as first formalized by the Early Church at the Synod of Hippo in 393 A.D., contained many mistakes. Along with translating it to German he did some editing, too.

Luther's canon

Luther's canon is the biblical canon attributed to Martin Luther, which has influenced Protestants since the 16th-century Protestant Reformation. While the Lutheran Confessions specifically did not define a biblical canon, it is widely regarded as the canon of the Lutheran Church. It differs from the 1546 Roman Catholic canon of the Council of Trent in that it rejects the deuterocanonical books and questions the seven New Testament books, called "Luther's Antilegomena", four of which are still ordered last in German-language Luther Bibles to this day.

This article goes into more detail on why Luther didn't feel that the Revelation was inspired scripture.

Why Didn’t Martin Luther Believe In The Book Of Revelation

Luther's views on the Book of Revelation diverged from the widespread acceptance of its divine inspiration and authority. ...

Unlike many of his contemporaries, Luther approached this apocalyptic text with a degree of skepticism, questioning its canonical status and divine inspiration.

Luther's skepticism towards the Book of Revelation stemmed from several key considerations. He expressed doubts about its apostolic authorship, raising questions about whether the text truly emanated from the Apostle John. This skepticism was rooted in Luther's meticulous approach to biblical interpretation, as he sought to discern the authenticity and divine inspiration of each book included in the New Testament.

Furthermore, Luther grappled with the symbolic and allegorical nature of the Book of Revelation. Its vivid imagery, prophetic visions, and complex symbolism presented interpretative challenges that led Luther to question its doctrinal coherence and relevance for Christian faith and practice. He emphasized the need for clarity and doctrinal soundness in biblical texts, and the enigmatic nature of the Book of Revelation raised concerns for Luther regarding its potential to lead to speculative and divisive interpretations.

Additionally, Luther's theological framework and emphasis on the primacy of certain biblical books, particularly the Pauline epistles, influenced his approach to the Book of Revelation. His commitment to justification by faith and the centrality of Christ's redemptive work led him to prioritize certain biblical themes and teachings, which in turn shaped his discernment of the Book of Revelation's significance within the broader canon.

It's ironic that the Book that Luther disfavored is now so central to many Protestant denominations, whereas the Catholics, who rose to defend its place in the Bible at the council of Trent; in response to Luther's criticisms.

Luther's views and editing inform most Protestant editions of the Bible.

[BereanBrain]

Luther is credited with starting protestantism, but he is NOT a good model, particularly in his hatred of Jews, the very source of the Messiah. Jesus WAS, and IS a Jew! He is the bridge between OT and NT.

I guess some people burn their bridges.

In fact, Luther proposed a 7 fold “solution” for the Jews. Another German came up with the “final solution”.

I am a protestant, but i am like a man whose great-great-great grandfather was a murderer and a thief. Even though he’s my relation, i denounce him for what he stands for. Just like I denounce the Pope.

[SaveFerris]

Weird how my post regarding Revelation 13 became a reason
for a whole bunch of stuff from him about Luther. (shrug)

[Cronos]

The beast coming out of the sea signifies a gentile power. And one that has the characteristics of the final beast in Daniel, signifying that Daniel’s vision was fulfilled at the first coming.

The beast from the land is the Sanhedrin. It has the characteristics of mocking the lamb of God that appeared earlier in the book of the Apocalypse of St John of Patmos.

[Vlad0]

Actually it was about Revelation. Luther is arguably the most important theologian in history, at least for Protestsnt Christians.

Read what he said about Revelations, which is the core of my post.

Do you disagree? If you don't admire Luther, and think he was wrong about Revelation, then maybe reconsider his other alterations to b the Book that had been unchsnged for 1,200 years before him.

[Cronos]

Technically Christianity is Jesus movement Judaism.

What we call Judaism today is the reconstituted or newly created religion created in 70 AD in the aftermath of the destruction of the 2nd temple, which was the end of temple worship and to 2nd temple Judaism the end of the world. Rabbi Yohannan bin Zakkai created modern Judaism out if the Pharisees sect of 2nd temple Judaism.

[BereanBrain]

Concerning Luther.

Can good and bad water come out of the same fountain?

James 3:10-12

His ideas should be taken no more importantly than any other (sinful) man, myself included. If it’s not scripture, it’s all opinion.

[SaveFerris]

[Revelations]

Didn't look at it. Maybe at some point.

[Cronos]

BB If it’s not scripture, it’s all opinion.

You do realize that Luther wanted to decide what constituted scripture

for that matter, what constitutes scripture according to you? Why do you hold that the 66 books in the bible you hold are scripture?

[BereanBrain]

God himself, through the Holy Spirit has moved the writers to produce scripture. He also moved men to adopt that which He produced, as the 66 books of scripture. He did not depend on the whims of men.

Why do you believe in a sovereign God, but for some reason he cannot get His message out? Just look at the miracle of how the scriptures have been preserved and not polluted over thousands of years.

[Cronos]

God himself, through the Holy Spirit has moved the writers to produce scripture.

Good

He also moved men to adopt that which He produced, as the 66 books of scripture. He did not depend on the whims of men

So you are saying that the collection of these books was done by inspired men?

[Vlad0]

As you please.

It is a bit odd that you commented about my post, but also say you didn't read it.

I guess that is sort of a standard practice on Free Republic among some people.

[Vlad0]

Yes. I agree with you, he was a deeply flawed person.

Now the obvious rejoinder to that is "aren't we all?", and yes, certainly we all have our failings. But most of us are not trying to reform our religion. There is a degree of hubris in saying: everyone else got this wrong for at least 1,300 years, but I have the correct understanding, and will now fix it.

It is odd, to me, that the most visible artifact of his life is a new religious group that bears his name: "Lutherans". I can't help but noticing how egoistic that is.

Had I been born into the Lutheran church I'm quite sure I would have left it. Unwilling to have my beliefs encased in the name of the man (or really any man).

Most all Protestant sects trace their origin to a schism led by a particular person. But very few take their name from that person, correctly understanding that the interpreter is not the author. Seventh Day Adventists aren't "White-ists" after Edith White. Anglicans not "Henryists".

Being an egoist and a virulant anti-Semite still doesn't mean he was wrong about everything, but it causes me to look very carefully at his teachings, and to do so with a degree of heightened scepticism.

In the case of his alterations of the Bible I reject them.

It's disheartening to see that so many Bibles produced by Protestant organizations take this even further than he did (once you get to improving through editing it becomes addicting I guess) and completely drop the books that Luther dismissively termed "the Apocrapha", itself a term of diminishment.

[Vlad0]

The "66 Books" is the a later Protestant revision of the Bible, which has it's origins in Luther's beliefs.

The Catholic Bible has 73 books. Luther didn't agree that some of them belonged there. He put his judgement above the Synod of Hippo in 393, and the many other Early Christian conclaves that ratified the contents of the Bible. Exorcising and reordering the Bible was one of his worst acts, along with promoting vile anti-Semitism.

Thank be to God that he was restrained, in the end, from removing Revelation, as he at one point intended.

The Eastern (Greek) Orthodox Bible contains 79 books.

The Oriental Orthodox Bible contains 81 books.

So, obviously Luther is not unique in editing the books of the Bible.

[SaveFerris]

No thanks is what I’m saying. I didn’t post that to get involved in a Catholic vs. Protestant debate here.

You came out of nowhere with this, now multiple times.

What I’m saying is please don’t post to me anymore. On any thread.

Thanks.

[Vlad0]

Sure thing.

Just make sure not to do that cheesy little trick where you talk about me in a thread using the third person as you did in this thread, above.

That's duplicitous.