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To: grumpa

Speaking of twisting Scripture - nothing like a Preterist to call the pot and kettle black. LOL.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

Revelation 13:11-17

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.

12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.

14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

WHO WAS THE A/C?
WHEN DID HE IMPLIMENT HIS MARK?
HOW DID HE FORCE CHINESE & MAYANS TO DO IT IN 70AD?

The Word says “ALL”.
Don’t twist Scripture “grumpa”...


2 posted on 03/17/2024 6:02:58 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

DAY AS A THOUSAND YEARS. This passage cannot have a literal meaning, otherwise it would be nonsense. Thus, it cannot mean that a short time really means a long time. Jesus was in the tomb three days. Does that mean he was in the tomb three thousand years, and his resurrection is still a thousand years off? Does that mean that a thousand years of Revelation 20 could mean a single day? Good grief, can God tell time? In this passage, Peter was speaking about God’s time, not human time. One cryptic passage does not negate all the dozens of easy-to-understand time statements in the New Testament. But let’s take a closer look.

The context of this statement in 2 Peter 3 is that the scoffers were reminding Peter that Jesus had promised to return in judgment in their generation, but now, about three decades later it had not yet happened. So, Peter scolds the scoffers and advised them that “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise” as they themselves were “waiting for the hastening day of the Lord” (2 Peter 3:12). So, Peter, writing in the early 60’s AD was issuing a strong warning about the soon coming destruction in AD 66-70 when Jerusalem was leveled by the Romans, the temple destroyed, and the system of temple ordinances ceased forever as the Old Covenant order was abolished. So, rather than arguing that the Fall of Jerusalem was a long time off, Peter was arguing that it would happen soon. And he was correct.

For more details about 2 Peter 3, see the article here:

https://prophecyquestions.com/2-peter-3-and-planet-destruction


4 posted on 03/17/2024 6:07:09 PM PDT by grumpa
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Re Rev 13, the key is to decipher who the beast of Revelation was. My response:

WHO IS THE BEAST OF REVELATION?

Actually, there are two beasts of Revelation 13. The first beast came from the sea; the second beast came from the land. The first beast is the primary actor, with the second beast appearing in a supporting role as a propagandist for the first beast. John was telling his readers that the (sea) beast was a man, and that they could figure out who the man was by calculating his number.

The book of Revelation was written to a first-century audience, probably around AD 64. For example, Revelation 17:10 says it was being written during the sixth king, who was Nero. Nero was ruler of Rome from AD 54-68. So, we should expect the first-century readers to have been able to calculate the number. For the beast to be someone thousands of years in the future would have made no sense to the readers in the first century. The Bible was written FOR us, but not TO us. The first-century context is reinforced by some thirty passages in Revelation that teach its fulfillment as imminent and about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 (Revelation 1:1-3; 20:6-20; etc.).

As every school child knows, the Romans used letters to represent numerals. Similarly, the Greeks and Hebrews assigned numerical values to their letters. Since Revelation was written by a Jew in a Hebrew context, and with numerous allusions to the Old Testament, we should expect the solution to deciphering the meaning of 666 to be Hebraic. It turns out that when Nero’s name is translated numerically into Hebrew, we find something very interesting. One version of Nero’s name—Nero Caesar (Nrwn Qsr)—provides us with precisely the value of 666!

It is plausible that the Sea Beast was Rome as embodied in Nero. The life of Nero perfectly fits the description; he was indeed a beastly man. He was a ruthless, insanely cruel murderer of many, including members of his own family—and the first Gentile persecutor of Christians. There were other ghastly tyrants in the ancient world, but nobody distinguished himself any more violence, brutality, and debauchery than Nero. Period secular historian Apollonius of Tyana made note of the fact that Nero was indeed referred to as a “beast.”

There is an interesting twist on this story. Some ancient manuscripts of the Bible have the number 616 instead of 666! In fact, perhaps the oldest manuscript available uses 616. This will surprise a lot of Christians who are wrapped up in 666 numerology speculation. The intriguing thing is that 616 spells Nero in Latin, the way 666 spells Nero in Hebrew! Some scholars believe that the change in the number was done purposely. Since Latin was the Roman language of the region that included Judea, the change was made so that Latin readers of the Bible would also have understood that the beast was Nero.

DeMar sums it up:

“Nero Caesar fits three essential criteria in determining the identity of the sea beast who will ‘make war with the saints’ (13:7): the time of his reign (AD 54-68), the numerical value of his official name and title, and his character as a persecutor of the saints.” (book “LAST DAYS MADNESS”)

Many Christians believe that the beast and the antichrist of John’s epistles are the same. To figure out one is to figure out the other. But I doubt that this association is correct as the antichrist is not even mentioned in Revelation. There are other figures in the first century who better match the antichrist.

So, who was the second beast (the “land beast”)? It seems probable that this was apostate Israel, who had become subservient to the Roman state. Israel in the Bible is associated with the land. And this beast is described as “exercising the authority of the first beast” (Revelation 13:12) and “deceiving those who dwell on earth” (Revelation 13:14).


21 posted on 03/17/2024 6:45:05 PM PDT by grumpa
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
I've started NOT replying to anything that grumpa puts out or says. He's only trying to stir up trouble. I'm firmly convinced that very few "religious" people at this stage of the game, are going to change their views.

About all we can do now is pray for our loved ones, pray that all those who can be saved, ARE saved, and stay steadfast in the faith until we are either raptured or meet the Lord thru our passing from this realm to the next.

I know that sounds like a "debbie downer" approach, but even the scriptures say in Ephesians 6:13, "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

26 posted on 03/17/2024 7:03:22 PM PDT by ducttape45 (Proverbs 14:34, "Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.")
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
Why do the preterists gloss over Mark 13:10?
”And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.”

That would seem to eliminate 70 AD as the timeframe in question.

36 posted on 03/17/2024 7:51:52 PM PDT by Flag_This (They're lying.)
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