Posted on 03/17/2024 5:53:12 PM PDT by grumpa
HERE’S HOW FUTURISTS TWIST THE WORDS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLICAL WRITERS
“This generation” (Mt. 11:16; 12:39; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34) REALLY MEANT some other future generation.
“In a very, very little while” (Heb. 10:37) REALLY MEANT thousands of years later.
“The end is at hand” (1 Pet. 4:7) REALLY MEANT it was not at hand at all, but rather far distant.
“The time was short” (1 Cor. 7:29) REALLY MEANT the time was a long time off.
“It is the last hour” (1 John 2:18) REALLY MEANT millions of hours later.
Judgment to occur at Jesus’ return in his kingdom “before some standing here taste death” (Mt. 16:27-28) REALLY MEANT a time like Pentecost or the Ascension when there would be no judgment.
“Must shortly take place” (Rev. 1:1; 22:6) REALLY MEANT it would NOT take place shortly.
“The time is near” (Rev. 1:3; 22:10) REALLY MEANT the time was far away.
“Soon” (Phil. 2:19; Rev. 22:12, 20) REALLY MEANT not soon at all.
“My kingdom is not of this world” (Lk. 17:20; Jn. 18:36) REALLY MEANT Jesus’ kingdom will be a literal millennial kingdom IN THE WORLD.
Paul said the gospel “has been proclaimed to the whole world” (Rom. 1:8; 10:18; 16:25-27; Col. 1:6; 23), but that couldn’t have REALLY MEANT the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy in Matthew 24:14 about the gospel being preached to the “whole world.”
The “kingdom will be taken from you [the Jews] and given to a people producing its fruits” (Mt. 21:43) REALLY MEANT the kingdom belonged to the Jews forever.
“May no fruit ever come from you again [the fig tree = Old Covenant Israel]” (Mt. 21:19) REALLY MEANT some day Israel will bear fruit again.
Jerusalem and temple to be “destroyed” (Dan. 9:26; Zech. 14:11) and Jesus replacing the temple as the focus of our faith (Jn. 2:19; Rev. 21:22) REALLY MEANT a third temple will be built.
Re Rev 13, the key is to decipher who the beast of Revelation was. My response:
WHO IS THE BEAST OF REVELATION?
Actually, there are two beasts of Revelation 13. The first beast came from the sea; the second beast came from the land. The first beast is the primary actor, with the second beast appearing in a supporting role as a propagandist for the first beast. John was telling his readers that the (sea) beast was a man, and that they could figure out who the man was by calculating his number.
The book of Revelation was written to a first-century audience, probably around AD 64. For example, Revelation 17:10 says it was being written during the sixth king, who was Nero. Nero was ruler of Rome from AD 54-68. So, we should expect the first-century readers to have been able to calculate the number. For the beast to be someone thousands of years in the future would have made no sense to the readers in the first century. The Bible was written FOR us, but not TO us. The first-century context is reinforced by some thirty passages in Revelation that teach its fulfillment as imminent and about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 (Revelation 1:1-3; 20:6-20; etc.).
As every school child knows, the Romans used letters to represent numerals. Similarly, the Greeks and Hebrews assigned numerical values to their letters. Since Revelation was written by a Jew in a Hebrew context, and with numerous allusions to the Old Testament, we should expect the solution to deciphering the meaning of 666 to be Hebraic. It turns out that when Nero’s name is translated numerically into Hebrew, we find something very interesting. One version of Nero’s name—Nero Caesar (Nrwn Qsr)—provides us with precisely the value of 666!
It is plausible that the Sea Beast was Rome as embodied in Nero. The life of Nero perfectly fits the description; he was indeed a beastly man. He was a ruthless, insanely cruel murderer of many, including members of his own family—and the first Gentile persecutor of Christians. There were other ghastly tyrants in the ancient world, but nobody distinguished himself any more violence, brutality, and debauchery than Nero. Period secular historian Apollonius of Tyana made note of the fact that Nero was indeed referred to as a “beast.”
There is an interesting twist on this story. Some ancient manuscripts of the Bible have the number 616 instead of 666! In fact, perhaps the oldest manuscript available uses 616. This will surprise a lot of Christians who are wrapped up in 666 numerology speculation. The intriguing thing is that 616 spells Nero in Latin, the way 666 spells Nero in Hebrew! Some scholars believe that the change in the number was done purposely. Since Latin was the Roman language of the region that included Judea, the change was made so that Latin readers of the Bible would also have understood that the beast was Nero.
DeMar sums it up:
“Nero Caesar fits three essential criteria in determining the identity of the sea beast who will ‘make war with the saints’ (13:7): the time of his reign (AD 54-68), the numerical value of his official name and title, and his character as a persecutor of the saints.” (book “LAST DAYS MADNESS”)
Many Christians believe that the beast and the antichrist of John’s epistles are the same. To figure out one is to figure out the other. But I doubt that this association is correct as the antichrist is not even mentioned in Revelation. There are other figures in the first century who better match the antichrist.
So, who was the second beast (the “land beast”)? It seems probable that this was apostate Israel, who had become subservient to the Roman state. Israel in the Bible is associated with the land. And this beast is described as “exercising the authority of the first beast” (Revelation 13:12) and “deceiving those who dwell on earth” (Revelation 13:14).
Grumpa, you have become one of the leading twisters of scripture on FR!
—> Preterism is such a juvenile philosophy totally void of facts.
It is also the theft of that which was given to Israel alone.
Ok, so if Nero was the A/C.
How did he implement “The Mark of the Beast” as I noted above in Revelation to Asians, Mayans, Scandinavians, Bush People in Africa and everybody else well outside of Rome’s reach and ability to control them?
Much less enforce it?
Your response is weak and I’ll never be convinced of it.
Now for the good of the forum, answer this and pay attention - because if you lie about this, you’re in grave danger with your false assertions:
How did Nero/Rome showcase the death of the Two Witnesses to the entire world with 1st century technology?
Here is what I’m referring to below:
Revelation 11:7-12
7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
Please explain to everybody on FR how TV was invented in Rome in order for Aborigines to view this event. The Bible says “all” inhabitants of the earth will see this.
Absolutely!
It’s an easy “hate Israel” philosophy.
Jesus is going to come down harshly on these false deceivers.
About all we can do now is pray for our loved ones, pray that all those who can be saved, ARE saved, and stay steadfast in the faith until we are either raptured or meet the Lord thru our passing from this realm to the next.
I know that sounds like a "debbie downer" approach, but even the scriptures say in Ephesians 6:13, "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."
cuz
they
cant
it proves them wrong and they have zero rebuttal they dont even try /-) thats why they tuck their tassels and run and hide.
like ive pointed out in the past and they've proven me right yet again
they are stiff necked
unteachable
and unrepentant
modern day sadducees im in a good mood so i wont reallly rock their boat and give an english lesson of how the subject of a sentance and the object of a sentance cant be the same in a single sentance, and how that applies to what, not who, the rock the church is but on.. ( hint, its the confession of beleif Jesus was the messiah , not peter ) Mat 16:16 - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God .” with a bonus question about puns i.e. petra verses petros. Mat 16:18 - “And I also say to you that you are Peter, Peter, g4074 Πέτρος Πέτρο petros \ and on this rock rock g4073 πέτρᾳ πέτρα petra I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. \/ petra is not petros and petros isnt petra so sorry your whole 1st pope peter heresy just bit the dust with again just 2 verses .read and weep and gnash those teeth.
“This passage cannot have a literal meaning, otherwise it would be nonsense.”
Respectfully, (1) what then does it mean and (2) how is taking as an explicit assertion nonsense?
So we have Democrats, Republicans, and Dispensationists?
What is left?
That makes the most sense.
Otherwise, someone would have you believe that in a whole dissertation about future events, Jesus switches back for ONE sentence to address the present one without making it clear, and then continues on without a pause about future events.
Recognizing that the *this generation* means the one living in the future time He is describing, makes the most sense and is consistent with a logical interpretation of the passage.
petra verses petros.
Mat 16:16 - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God .”
Mat 16:18 - “And I also say to you that you are Peter, ( petros )
\ and on this rock ( petra )
I will build My church,
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
theft of the promises to Israel
steal
kill
destroy
same ol same ol
doctrines of demons
a woke like ideology built on resentment entitlement, pride and projection.
kind of like the
Rrrr-Demicracy Pirate Party.
.
Deal in actions, not arguments- arguments stoke sinful pride- Action on the other-hand covers a multitude of sins
1 pete 4;8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
he likes to run to
..its an analogy
or
its a metaphor
regardless of what the technical requirements an idiom must meet to be a metaphor or analogy or parable or any other of the over 200 idioms in the english translations.
he just interchanges them to fit what ever violence to the text his ideology pride and stiff neck requires. its a common con man technique.
Lots of variations on the subject if one cares to look at some
of the thoughts.
https://www.google.com/search?q=preterism&rlz=1CAXGER_enUS1094&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1
That would seem to eliminate 70 AD as the timeframe in question.
To: Criminal
You bring up the subject of the mark of the beast. Here’s my response:
Mark of the Beast
Who or what is the “mark of the beast” of Revelation 13:16; 14:9? Prerequisites to this article are my other articles about When Revelation Was Written, The Central Theme of Revelation, and Who Was the Beast of Revelation—found at my website here:
https://prophecyquestions.com/category/revelation-2
As I demonstrate at this site, the Sea Beast of Revelation was almost certainly Rome, specifically embodied in Nero. Here’s a short summary:
The book of Revelation was written to a first-century audience, probably around AD 64. For example, Revelation 17:10 says it was being written during the reign of the sixth king, who was Nero. Nero was ruler of Rome from AD 54-68. So, we should expect the first-century readers to have been able to calculate the number. For the beast to be someone thousands of years in the future would have made no sense to the readers in the first century. Remember, the Bible was written FOR us, but not TO us. The first-century context is reinforced by some thirty passages in Revelation that teach its fulfillment as imminent and about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 (Revelation 1:1-3; 20:6-20; etc.).
As every school child knows, the Romans used letters to represent numerals. Similarly, the Greeks and Hebrews assigned numerical values to their letters. Since Revelation was written by a Jew in a Hebrew context, and with numerous allusions to the Old Testament, we should expect the solution to deciphering the meaning of 666 to be Hebraic. It turns out that when Nero’s name is translated numerically into Hebrew, we find something very interesting. A first-century version of Nero’s name—Nero Caesar (Nrwn Qsr)—provides us with precisely the value of 666! While I will not go into detail here, you can check this out in various places. One book that goes into it is Kenneth Gentry’s book THE BOOK OF REVELATION MADE EASY.
The second beast, the Land Beast, was most likely Israel. This can be gleaned not only by Israel’s frequent association with The Land, but also by this statement, “It [The Land Beast] exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast” (Revelation 13:12). Remember that at Jesus’ trial, the chief priests cried out “We have no king but Caesar” (John 19:15). The Jewish leadership was in cahoots with Rome in the crucifixion of Jesus, as well as in the persecution of Christians!
In the Old Testament, we find this: “And the LORD said to him, ‘Pass through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it. . . .” (Ezekiel 9:4-6).
David Chilton, in his book “Days of Vengeance,” taught that the mark of the beast in Revelation is a reference to Ezekiel 9. It is a “satanic parody of Israel’s allegiance to Rome.” So, who was wearing the “mark?” Apostate Old Covenant Israel in the first century.
But a slightly different view makes more sense to me. Ezekiel 9 is a vision about the coming annihilation of Judah and Jerusalem. The “mark” may simply mean that, in a prophetic sense, most Jewish people were “marked for death” while some seem to have been spared―i.e. “marked for life.” This is similar to the modern English phrase, “He is a marked man.” Revelation 14:9 speaks of God’s wrath falling on those who worship the beast, which suggests the Jews who had “no king but Caesar” (John 19:15). So, regarding Revelation, we see the scene repeated in the Jewish-Roman War of AD 66-70 when over a million Jews were killed by the Romans with only a few escaping God’s wrath.
The mark of the beast is not literal. How do know? Revelation 14:1 talks about Jesus’ and the Father’s name written on the foreheads of the 144,000. Such marking is obviously is not literal. No one ever puts God’s name on their foreheads. Rather, it has to do with allegiance or affiliation.
There you have it. This is not about us today. And it is not about computer chips under the skin, or other such ridiculous notions.
For more on Revelation, check out my website:
https://prophecyquestions.com/category/revelation-2
To: Criminal
Thanks for exposing your ignorance.
HAS THE GOSPEL BEEN PROCLAIMED TO THE WHOLE WORLD?
“And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
There are several reasons why this passage has already been fulfilled:
1. At least 6 times the inspired apostle Paul proclaimed that this had been fulfilled by the time he was writing―Romans 1:8; 10:18; 16:25-26; Colossians 1:6, 23; 1 Thessalonians 1:8. See also Acts 1:8; 19:10 and 1 Timothy 3:16.
2. The word “world” in this passage (Matthew 24:14) is the Greek word “OIKOUMENE,” which is often translated the Roman world. It is not the whole globe, in which case the Greek word “kosmos” would have been used. See Luke 2:1; Acts 11:28; 17:6; 24:5.
3. Jesus restricted fulfillment of this prophecy to his generation (Matthew 24:34).
4. The context of the “END” was the end of the Old Covenant Age when the temple would be destroyed (Matthew 24:1-2).
wheres mine ?
wheres my rebuttal ? surely you have a couple thousand word diatribe to twist your way out of reconciling the 2 verses , daniel and matthew, i provided ?
how are 2 verses talking about the same group of people ?
,,......
slick
conman
luke 2:1
world
g3625
οἰκουμένην
οἰκουμένη
oikoumenē
ya, not seeing cosmos buddy.
and btw, cosmos means universe not globe or world.
all your crap is like that, when checked, wrong.
on purpose ?
you pile turd upon turd upon turd hoping no one will dig through your piles of feces and see how bizarrely wrong you are.
you try to overwhelm your opponets much like jack smith, fanni willis, and someone else you remind me of adam shift and nancy pelosi try to overwhelm patriots with mountains of accusations, charges, prosecutions, trials , lawfare and never ending litigation.
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