I see...
Posted on 03/17/2024 11:14:52 AM PDT by Morgana
A former Mormon has lifted the lid on the church's bizarre 'baptisms for the dead' - revealing the temple sent her to a cemetery to take pictures of gravestones as a kid and then forced her to participate in a ceremony for the deceased.
Alyssa Grenfell, 31, who now works as an assistant principle in Austin, Texas, was raised in a 'devout Mormon family' in Utah, but decided to leave the 'controlling religion' in 2017.
She has since dedicated her life to helping others 'navigate their own way out of the LDS church' - releasing her own 'guide' called How to Leave the Mormon Church, while also becoming a viral social media star for sharing her experiences online.
Most recently, Alyssa spoke out about a 'creepy' process that saw the group baptize people who have passed away - even if they weren't members of the religion before their death.
In a video shared to her YouTube channel last week, where she has more than 85,000 subscribers, Alyssa announced: 'The Mormon church is baptizing your dead relatives.'
She explained that members of the religion believe that 'everyone must be baptized by the proper Mormon authority' to move on to 'Spirit Paradise' when they pass away.
'Essentially, when someone passes away, if they haven't had the chance to receive a Mormon baptism, they're not saved,' she said.
'So Mormons take the names of those who have not been baptized and take them to the LDS temple.
'They also believe that it's up to the person to accept or reject the baptism on the other side.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Not just Baptists, since it is just one of the many distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels).
Despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of over 200 prayers by believers, and despite this being a most basic practice, and despite there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for it since the Fall, yet there are none in the Hebrew canon or the NT for the departed (and 2 Mac. 12 does not teach Purgatory) by believers for the departed (despite Cath. extrapolative attempts to divine such), nor addressed to anyone else but God.
The only prayers or offerings in Scripture to anyone else in the spiritual world is by pagans, including to the only Queen of Heaven. (Jer. 44)
Alyssa Grenfell, 31, who now works as an assistant principle in Austin,
= = =
I suspect she is a principal.
Unless that is left-over Mormon stuff to be a principle.
(Principal is your ‘pal’)
I grew up in that cult so you can’t lie to me. Don’t try to post sanitized BS. I lived in it. As soon as I turned 18 - boom out. Honor your mother and father doesn’t include denying Christ but then again I figured that out at 12.
It’s irrelevant. You had choices in this life. Baptism is a choice. It’s a ritual to demonstrate your choice in Christ. It is nothing more. Baptism itself does not save or provide salvation. Otherwise, as a baptized believer, I could sin forever and depend on baptism as my salvation. It didn’t work that way and Christ says it doesn’t work that way. The born again has to do with the spirit not a bathtub.
Acts 2:38 mentions “every one of you”.
Abraham was commended for his faith.... after he had left Haran, travelled hundreds of miles (the hard way), built at least three altars and offered sacrifices on them. He had to hear the word of God and keep it. His faith would have been incomplete without acting upon it.
The epistles were written to people that were already born again. They knew the method of conversion in detail. Therefore, they didn’t need the details again.
We’ve got a lot of Fr exmos that are quite willing to toss doctrine back at current Mormons, trying to get something other than non-sequitars in return.
Watch the LDS folks in this thread gradually fade away from the ‘conversation’.
'Tis amazing to me how this is somehow able to infer unreliable or inaccurate.
I see...
If a democratic primary challenger can find a picture of his/her opponent with Trump, that should be enough to get the Tar-and-Feathers ready!
Oh the scandal!
And you've done quite well.
However, I still call the traditions a bit johnny-come-lately.
I didn’t say “anyone”. I said the church
Yes, baptism is commanded, and which in Acts 2:38 signifies faith, but which simply does not and cannot established that this is the means of or necessary for regeneration from Adam onward.
And in the NT, There was a certain man in Cæsarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, (Acts 10:1) And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. (Acts 11:13-14) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:... (Acts 10:34)
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:43-48)
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)
In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation), in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise. (Eph 1:13 [DRB])
Abraham was commended for his faith.... after he had left Haran, travelled hundreds of miles (the hard way), built at least three altars and offered sacrifices on them. He had to hear the word of God and keep it. His faith would have been incomplete without acting upon it.
Yes, faith without works is dead, yet it is faith, effectual faith which results in obedience, that justifies, being imputed for righteousness, versus awaiting until all requirements of the law are fulfilled which only Christ perfectly did.
Abraham had this effectual faith long before he supremely manifested this by offering up Issac.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (Romans 4:20-22)He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (Romans 4:20-22)
The epistles were written to people that were already born again. They knew the method of conversion in detail. Therefore, they didn’t need the details again.
But they are reminded of the faith which they were preached, and taught that as with Abraham, effectual faith is what appropriates justification, and not the service itself which faith effects, though since they go together as cause and effect, sometimes they can be used interchangeably. To command baptism is to command faith since it requires and manifests it, but the latter is the effect of believing. As with forgiveness and healing.
Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? (Mark 2:9)
The effect is not to be confused as the cause, and which is what appropriates justification, though both go together a cause and effect in practice.
Hope this helps. http://peacebyjesus.net
**Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.**
The next chapter has Peter in front of the church elders, defending his mission to the Gentiles in Caesarea, and how he had a responsibility after the Holy Ghost was poured out on them:
“Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17
To the crowd that believes that water baptism is not a salvation issue, Peter’s response there should seem needless, because they believe that there was nothing for Peter to withstand from God.
But there was: He HAD to command those Gentiles to be baptized. It was God’s command. The disciples were commanded to remit sins (John 20:23), and they did this by faith that water baptism in the name of Jesus was for the remission of sins. Peter confirms it in 1 Peter 3:21:
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1. Peter says water baptism saves.
2. He says it isn’t a bath, but it gives the obedient a good conscience toward God.
3. Why? Because the resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmation that his commands are to be followed. And an important one is Mark 16:16:
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Which does NOT say:
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that is BAPTIZETH not shall be damned.”
**Which does NOT say:
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that is BAPTIZETH not shall be damned.**
He that believeth not is obviously not going to be baptized.
Is this how you interpret the first half of Mark 16:16?....
‘He that believeth is saved and can be baptized.’
The utter urgency of water baptism, shown several times in the book of Acts, is certainly not common today: people postponing it for days or weeks so that it can be viewed by plenty of family and friends, turning it into a party.
Therefore, the the lack of urgency shows the lack of faith (and understanding) in the act.
When Ananias was convinced of Saul (Paul) being repentant toward God, he declared:
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 22:16
(That’s obviously not Spirit baptism, for Spirit baptism doesn’t require a particular moving around or positioning.)
I know nothing about obviousness, but only what the text reads.
Works for me.
Romans 10:13-15 New International Version
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
Nothing about getting wet here.
URGENT?
Paul may have a differing adjective in mind:
1 Corinthians 1:14-16 King James Version 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
If you are NOT saved without it, I think that Christ would have told Paul to do it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.