Posted on 03/08/2024 9:36:46 AM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
“Sorry to have interpreted the signs wrong.”
SubMareener, I’m glad to finally see at least some admission of your error after all these years. But it is not the interpretation of signs and is rather the interpretation of scripture that is at issue. I hope this will cause you to exercise caution about going beyond what the Bible passages specifically say and elevating manmade doctrines and human speculations to the level of scripture.
“I don’t have spotify, but I will google these nonetheless.”
The links should work even without logging into Spotify, but if not here are links to the songs on YouTube:
Watchman (released March 8, 2024)
https://youtu.be/By0BHcAL_N0
LYRICS
If I’m fully honest
I’m waiting on Your promise
Even through the trauma that swept my friends away
The darkness is upon us
The death of saints and psalmists
But I will sing my song for You anyway
Because You’re all I have Lord, You are the way
And I’ll always love You, and I will wait
Like a watchman, at the gate
Waiting for morning, to break
I can feel the winds are changing
Getting further down the range and
Truth is looking stranger than the lies
Because it’s simple and it’s holy
It’s better than they told me
Jesus You’re my only guiding light
And You’re all I have Lord, you are the way
And I’ll alway love You, and I will wait
Like a watchman, at the gate
Waiting for morning to break
Waiting to hear You say
Come on, enter in to my rest
And lay your head upon my chest
For I have called you friend
Because you kept your lamp burning through the night
And you made your garments pure and white
By my good sacrifice
Yeah, singing now my kingdom is with man
So come up to my table and
Raise up this glass with Me
Oh, singing no more tears and no more pain
I’m making all things new again
Just like I promised you
Sing alleluia all the way
And I’ll always love You
And I will wait
Like a watchman at the gate
Lord, I’m a watchman at the gate
I’m waiting for morning to break
I’m waiting for morning to break
Keep my lamp burning
Stay awake
Revelator
https://youtu.be/ebKOP-Usoxs
LYRICS
Had a dream I was alone
A vast expanse of complete unknown
Sea of glass so clear it shown,
Like gold
Then a voice like thunder clapped,
As a dead man I collapsed
I am the first, I am the last,
Now rise my son
Then behold ten thousand kings,
And every creature worshipping
Every eye was on one thing,
One man
He’s like a lion like a lamb,
As though slain he holds the plan
To make war and peace with man,
And reign on earth
Holy, Holy, is the One,
Who was and is, and is to come
In a robe as red as blood,
He comes forth
Ride like lightning in the sky,
Upon the war horse he draws nigh,
The same one we crucified,
Will come again
I’ll add one more to these...
Revelation Song (Global Edition)
https://youtu.be/ZFvgIjOv-rA
LYRICS
[Verse 1]
Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
Holy, holy, is He
Sing a new song, to Him who sits on
Heaven’s mercy seat
[Chorus]
Holy, Holy, Holy
Is the Lord God Almighty
Who was, and is, and is to come
With all creation I sing
Praise to the King of kings
You are my everything
And I will adore You
[Verse 2]
Clothed in rainbows, of living color
Flashes of lightning, rolls of thunder
Blessing and honor, strength and glory and power be
To You the only wise King, oh
[Verse 3]
Filled with wonder, awestruck wonder
At the mention of your name
Jesus your name is power
Breath, and living water
Such a marvelous mystery, yeah
So you are saying that the Great Sign in the Heavens of Revelation 12:1-2 has not occurred, and that the Woman is not Israel, and Israel is not in travail?
When you see a red sky in the morning, you don’t take warning? Or can you see the signs of the weather, but not the signs of the time?
Jesus wept over Jerusalem because they should have been able to calculate the day of his coming, and recognize that Daniel’s 70th week had started. He was cut off in the middle of it. The five virgins who did not keep their lamps full and had let their oil vessels go dry, didn’t make it to the banquet when the Bridegroom came in the night.
Why would Jesus tell all these parables about paying attention to the signs of the times if it weren’t important?
One more thought to share that’s been on my mind...
(This is relevant regardless of the various eschatological views.)
1. I find no significant role in scripture regarding the United States. There is Israel, “Babylon”, the revived Roman Empire (Europe, with 10 nations in particular), Gog (a reconstituted Soviet Union ?), and massive armies of the kings of the east (China?, India?), but not much to support a role for the West. Maybe, and it might be a stretch, America might be represented by the two eagle wings that come in support of Israel against the antichrist. Other than that it is as if America does not exist.
2. Current Russian oligarchs are openly discussing the justification and inevitability of a first-strike, nuclear attack on The West.
3. Here is the approximate landmass of “The West”
* Western Europe: Approximately 3.9 million square miles.
* Northern America: Approximately 9.5 million square miles.
* Australasia: Approximately 3.1 million square miles.
In total, the land mass of these regions adds up to approximately 16.5 million square miles.
* The total landmass of planet Earth is 57.1 million square miles.
* This means “The West” makes up about 28.9% of the Earth’s landmass.
4. The fourth sign/seal/horse of the apocalypse comes on a “fourth part” (i.e. 25%) of the earth.
Revelation 6:7-8 NKJV
When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
5. Although I’m in no way asserting that such a scenario is the meaning of this passage, it seems as if America ceasing to exist as a world power is a real possibility in the light of Bible prophecy. And regardless of prophecy, it seems to me that our “cup of iniquity” is full or very nearly so. The future of our once-great nation seems pretty bleak to me.
As you’ve collected quite a few examples of “signs of the times” and studied their relationship with Bible prophecy, perhaps you have some insights into this.
“Why would Jesus tell all these parables about paying attention to the signs of the times if it weren’t important?”
Jesus gave us 6 specific signs of His coming in the Olivet Discourse. These correspond to the first 6 seals of Revelation:
1. time of false peace and deception
2. war
3. famine
4. disease, natural disasters, and mass casualties
5. the Great Tribulation: time of trouble for the whole world and global persecution of the elect by the antichrist who is revealed at the abomination of desolation
6. signs in the heavens including a simultaneous solar/lunar eclipse
See Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation 6.
Don’t just read the first 2 verses of Revelation 12, read the whole chapter (I don’t want to post the whole chapter here):
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2012&version=NKJV
The sign you mentioned is merely the visible alignment of the heavenly hosts, but where is the dragon?
In the Balfour Declaration land was designated for Jews to return to (1917), then later Israel became a nation again (1948), and Israel gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem (1967). These are all prophetically significant, but they don’t mean we should quit our jobs and camp out watching the night sky for Jesus. Neither should the sign of the woman, child, sun, moon, and stars cause us to panic, start setting dates, or quit our jobs.
Several things will take place in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week:
1. The two witnesses will be killed (and raised 3.5 days later).
2. Antichrist will set up his throne in the temple and proclaim himself “God” in the abomination of desolation.
3. The Great Tribulation will begin as the Antichrist forces the world to worship him and take his mark. He will persecute Christians and the remnant of Israel which will flee into the desert.
4. A war in Heaven will culminate in the eviction of Satan and his angels by Michael and his angels. Satan, the “Dragon,” is cast to the earth.
Without this 4th item, your sign of the woman with child is incomplete. But the visible manifestation of the Devil will be in the person of the man of sin, the Antichrist. This is why Paul focuses the attention of the Thessalonians on two things in relation to their persecution:
1. the apostasy
2. the abomination of desolation
These are the most definitive and visible evidences that the Great Tribulation has begun and Christ’s return is very close. More importantly, they MUST occur BEFORE the Day of the Lord/coming of Christ. See 2 Thessalonians 2.
I was always under the impression that the Gog Magog war was much later. In fact, it seems like it’s the final war and even follows Armageddon and the millennial reign.
Revelation 20:8 NKJV
and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
But honestly, I’ve never studied this.
I’m thankful for The Lord’s promises that He will wipe all tears away (Rev. 21:4; Isaiah 25:8).
This is what keeps me going! He will get us through!
Amen!
100% 👍
Thank you for sharing!
We are all learning - everyone of us.
Thanks for the verses and posts.
Very comforting and very invigorating to know others are also looking forward to His Return and soon!
We all look through the glass darkly (1 Corinthians 13:12) right now.
We point to Jesus because He is the Only One who can redeem.
Not by works, not by deeds, not by anything but 100% complete trust in Him.
God Bless You!
The event of September 23, 2017 is too good a match to Rev. 12:1-2 not to take a second look. I don’t know what it means but I will speculate. What if it signifies that the events of chapter 12 have begun? Chapter 10:11 the angel said to John: thou must prophecy’s again. This is the second prophecy. Read the seventh trumpet again, it described the second coming of Christ. Also chapter 10:7 says that in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished.
It is hard to imagine the 42 months in chapter 13 happening after Christ takes the reins of power at the seventh trumpet.
The sun and moon and twelve stars send us to Joseph. Because of the prophetic character of history we can look at the details to see if they fit. The famine could be from Amos 8:11. What is the significance of the seven years of plenty.?Notice God told Pharaoh but not Jacob. Are we in the time of plenty where everyone has a copy of the Bible on their phone? The timeline may need some adjustment, but note the rapture may not happen until Rev 14:16 in the second prophecy.
What did I do to get a thumbs up? I thought my ideas were blasphemy to most.
I think your post was well stated and 100% truth.
Did I miss something?
Or did you intend to say I needed to do some extra “deeds” to complete my Christianity?
No sir. I don’t think one needs to be a believing in a Pre trib Rapture. Which some people think is blasphemy. I pin my hopes on believing Christ died for me, and I ask forgiveness every morning for my sins, because I know I stink of them without prayer.
If one happens to have an astronomy app on their phone/tablet/computer (some are free to download), they could see the woman clothed by the sun and the moon under her feet in some form of fashion every year.
I first saw it in 2014 when I was curious what His lights in the firmament were showing while a particular day in scriptures, was occuring.
It happens in the early fall nowadays, but used to happen in late summer.
Since that sign is also detailing the birth of a man child who was caught up to heaven, and who will rule, that sign might actually reveal something about the birth of the manchild about 2,000 years ago..
And notice, that sign in the early fall these days is nowhere near December ...
But who can war with the Beast that sells December instead?
If you ever decide you want to read anything besides the bible for further understanding.
STUDIES IN REVELATION 12 & 13: Pastor Stephen Bohr:
https://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All%20of%20Pastor%20Bohr‘s%20Study%20Notes/BSIR1213.pdf
Revelation 12:1 Element # 1: The Woman
“Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.”
What stage of the Church are we talking about here? Is it the Old Testament Church or the New Testament Church? It must be the Old Testament Church because the child had not been born yet and the child is Jesus.
It would be good to remember that in the Old Testament we have many women and many seeds who prefigure THE woman and THE Seed of Genesis 3:15.
What is represented by the sun that clothes the woman and the moon that she stands on? The answer is determined by the meaning of the greater light and the lesser light.
• The sun is the greater light and the moon is the lesser light (Genesis 1:16)
• The sun: Represents Jesus Christ, the greater light (Psalm 84:11; Matthew 17:3; Revelation 1:16; Malachi 4:1)
• The moon: the lesser light is the Bible which gives witness to Jesus (John 5:35, 39, 46, 47)
Only one woman:
There is only one woman before Jesus was born, when Jesus was born, when the Church was persecuted for 1260 years and when the final remnant is persecuted. God has only one true Church in all ages. Dispensationalists are totally wrong when they say that God has two mutually separable peoples. There is only one Messiah and only one people of the Messiah. The same dragon is also active in all of the stages.
The twelve stars:
They represent the twelve sons of Jacob. They are the founders which later form the twelve tribes of Israel, (Genesis 37:9, 10; Genesis 49:28).
The twelve stars also represent the twelve apostles who are the founders of the New Testament Church: (Mark 3:14). Notice the number of times that the apostles are addressed as ‘the twelve’ (Matthew 10:1, 2, 5, 11:1; 20:17; 26:20).
“As in the Old Testament the twelve patriarchs stood as representatives of Israel, so the twelve apostles stood as representatives of the gospel church.” Acts of the Apostles p.19
“The Old Testament portrayed faithful Israel (or Judah or Jerusalem) as a virgin or God’s bride but their unfaithful equivalent as a prostitute; thus the tale of two cities that contrasts the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2) and Babylon the prostitute (17:5).” IVB Bible Background New Testament on Revelation 12:1
The significance of the events of Acts 1:16, 26. Why such an urgency to name the twelfth apostle before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost?
Notice the number of times that the apostles are addressed as ‘the twelve’ (Matthew 10:1, 2, 5, 11:1; 20:17; 26:20).
Acts 1:16-26: “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.” 18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’ 21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
There were twelve stones in the breastplate of the high priest (Exodus 28:15-30).
Jesus was inaugurated as the high priest upon His ascension and he needed to have twelve apostles because the breastplate had twelve stones (Hebrews 8:1, 2).
There is only one city with the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles: Revelation 21:12; Revelation 21:14.
There is this myth that the disciples rushed to name a successor of Judas and chose Matthias when it was God’s plan to make Saul of Tarsus # 12. But this is an unwarranted assumption and pure speculation.
Revelation 12:2: Element # 2: The woman’s Seed
“Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.”
• The Seed has not been born at this point so the woman must represent the Church of the Old Testament
• The Seed is Jesus as can be seen clearly in Revelation 12:5
Revelation 12:3: Element # 3: The seven-headed dragon with ten horns
“And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.”
“The line of prophecy in which these symbols are found begins with Revelation 12, with the dragon that sought to destroy Christ at His birth. The dragon is said to be Satan (Revelation 12:9); he it was that moved upon Herod to put the Saviour to death. But the chief agent of Satan in making war upon Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian Era was the Roman Empire, in which paganism was the prevailing religion. Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome.” The Great Controversy,
p. 438
Revelation 12:4: Element # 4: Enmity against the woman’s Seed
“His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.”
Revelation 12:4 presents the entire sweep of the controversy between Christ and Satan from the origin of sin in heaven till Jesus died on the cross. He first gives a flashback into what happened in heaven and then goes right to the birth of Jesus. In verse 9 once again he gives a flashback to heaven and then deals with events after the ascension of Jesus. So verses 7-10 take us a little further forward than verse 3 and verse 5.
Satan attempted to destroy the Seed by two methods: Persecution and infiltration. Genesis 3:15 begins its preliminary fulfillment in the story of Cain and Abel. Eve was not THE WOMAN of Revelation 12:1 and Abel was not THE SEED.
• The enmity is primarily between the serpent and the woman’s Seed
• There is a conspiracy behind history as exemplified by the stories of Cain, Abel, Ruth, the flood, Joseph, David, and Esther. See also, Revelation 2:10.
Revelation 12:5: The ascension of Jesus took place during the period of the Roman Empire
“She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.”
One can certainly dig much deeper into the spiritual with this, but my comment was about the literal sun in the sky, traveling through a constellation that the world calls Virgo, and the moon will eventually end up down by ‘her feet’.
And in 2014, instead of 2017 that was previously discussed, it could be seen happening through an astronomy app.
And it was on one of those pesky ‘New Moon Days’ found in the bible that we’ve discussed.
Sometime in September 2014..
It is a revelation that the heavens and the bible aren’t exactly silent on the birth of the Word Made Flesh.
And that isn’t anywhere near that Roman Empire’s December 25..
That would be quite a revelation for the Church.
It would mean December 25 birth, January 1 circumcision, and February 2 presentation in the temple, is a false doctrine by the Roman Empire and Church..
We’ve already discussed the difference between the Bible’s Passover vs the Roman Empire’s Good Friday, some may start to question what their faith is really in if the Roman Empire and the Church can’t get anything right about the Word Made Flesh, and yet there is a version that the bible, His Creation and His Word Made Flesh, can reveal to people of faith..
Btw, the newest moon is set to be seen tonight, so tomorrow is the ‘Day of the New Moon. A day that actually had the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet on the same type of day in the fall these days..
A day that appears to point to the ‘time and events’ before Let there be Light in Genesis and the Beginning where the Word was, and when the Word Became Flesh, thanks to that Revelation 12 literal sun,moon and stars assembled into what some have called a Virgo, Woman...
That is probably why Feasts and Banquets were to be held in Israel on that day, and that stores and markets were closed..
That isn’t the only heavenly sign in the bible, especially the New Testament.
There’s 2 Fish up there these days in the Spring.
There’s a Woman up there these days in the Fall.
There will come a time that a Man carrying a pitcher of water will replace the 2 Fish in the Spring, at Passover.
When that sign comes to pass at Passover, in the Fall the Woman will be replaced by a Lion, of the Tribe of Judah..
Quite a revelation that He tells us in His Word and His Heavens.
Sometimes the sun, moon and stars are also a literal sign in the heavens..
And with a favorable barley report in Israel, tomorrow begins His 1st Spring month, when the Passover Lamb died for our sins, on the 14th Day of this upcoming month..
Roman Empire calls it Monday March 25.
Tuesday March 26 is the 15th Day, a holy convocation and no servile work was to be done, and the 3rd Day, Wednesday March 27th will be First Fruits, the 16th Day, and Resurrection Day..
Roman Empire Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday will host His Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Paul’s first importance of the gospel, or the 14th,15th,16th Days from tomorrow, His Day of the New Moon..
A Feast time where His sun will be traveling through the 2 Fish in His sky.
2 fish, 5 unleavened loaves, quite a sign for any who know when and where to look.
The New Testament and His sky can offer some real revelations.
And His appointments are a good time to ‘look up’..
He gives His Creation a witness to where and when we are on His plan.
I’m going to guess Pastor Stephen is an December 25 and Easter sort.. which is fine.
But it isn’t biblical. It’s Roman Empire..
And that Revelation 12 literal sign can do a lot to destroy parts of Rome’s doctrines regarding the birth of the manchild.
And btw, majority in Judaism will probably observe Passover a month later.
And that’ll actually be the timing of when Israel was being fed manna from heaven in Exodus 16, that started on the 16th day of His 2nd month.
Which is another revelation.
About 30 days after the blood of the Passover Lamb delivered Israel from the bondage slavery, He fed them manna from heaven.
A revelation because Judaism may actually argue amongst themselves when to observe Passover this year, but also because 30fold was one of the numbers Christ used in His parable of the sower.
He uses 60 and 100 also.
One need not wonder if anything occurred around the 60 and 100 markers, like the 30.
The bible describes the events in the Exodus.
Further understanding is available, but not from the Church.
That’s a real shame, as it simplifies the battle and journey for people of faith..
The Church really is an enemy in the end times.
That’d be a revelation,too, for many..
“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”This is about the second coming - nothing about a tribulation, nothing about a secret rapture
The “great tribulation” spoken of in Matthew 24:21-22 is linked to Daniel 12:1 as Jesus says that the tribulation of 64 to 67 AD would be even worse than that of Antiochus.
Jesus here is speaking to His followers after He has just given the disciples to protect His infant church. Those signs were fulfilled before 70 AD — the tribulation is referred to in the fifth sign (Matthew 24:9).
This make it apparent that Jesus is referring here to the Great Tribulation of His church under Nero from 64 to 67 AD
The Nero persecution of the church happened at the same time the church was persecuted by both the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees.
This ended after 3.5 years, 42 months, 1760 days when the wrath refocused on Jerusalem, the center of the rebellion.
That (from 64 AD to 67 AD) was the community, the Church of Jesus Christ’s greatest tribulation (the church founded at the Pentecost of 33 AD) because never again would it be attacked by the secular, religious and preachers (Pharisees) - all sides
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