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Posted on 02/06/2024 5:42:32 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
End Times Ping
This is a great article by Lee who quotes Ephraim The Syrian (Circa 306AD - 379AD), whom many Roman Catholics love to consider and “early Church Father”. My My....
He writes about a Pre-Tribulation Rapture too.
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Maranatha! We celebrate the coming of our King very soon!
Correct. And many early writings teach the imminent return of Christ.
.
Indeed, it is not a new, novel theology.
Some of them are flat out heretics; usually the ones who don't have "St" in front of their names. Origen and Tertullian come prominently to mind. Origen believed that the devil and his angels would, or at least could, repent and be saved. Tertullian ended his life in an heretical sect called the Montanists. Their testimony to the beliefs of the early Church are still valuable.
St Ephraim wrote extensively in support of a high view of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the words of the linked article, [Ephraim's] Hymnography of the Blessed Mother covers a wide range of testimony on behalf of her Divine Motherhood, her giving birth as a Virgin, her role of salvific mediation, her Office as Second Eve, and her absolute sinlessness.
Still want to claim him as a mascot?
Now, show me from St Ephraim's writings where he thought the "rapture" was not an integral part of the Second Coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead on the last day, and instead happened centuries before it.
‘Blessed Mother’….
Speaking of heresy and heretics….
🙄
The English and Latin texts of the first passages that are used by you to try to support the pre-tribulation rapture are
| Rhoades translation | Actual Translation | Latin |
| Why therefore do we not reject every car of earthly actions and prepare outselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? (section 2) | Why therefore do we not thrust from us all anxiety on account of earthly impulses, and prepare ourselves for a meeting with the Lord Christ, so that he might draw us out from confusion, which overwhelms all mankind? | Quid ergo non proicimus a nobis omnem actuum terrenorum sollicitudinem et nosmet ipsos praeparamus in occursum domini Christi, ut nos eruat a confusione, quae uniursum obruet mundum? |
| For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to thw Lord les they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins | Truly all the holy and elect of God, before the tribulation that is about to come, are gathered and received to the Lord, lest at any time they see the confusion that will overwhelm all mankind in account of our sins | Omnes enim sancti et electi Dei ante tribulationem, quae uentura est, colliguntur et ad Dominum adsumuntur, ne quando uideant confusionem, quae uniuersum propter peccata nostra obruet mundum |
Though the verb can be used where physical movement takes place if implied in the context, this is not a meaning inclusive in the word itself. In fact, it is most often to take without any actual literal movement being stressed at all, such as joining another to one's self in a relationship of position.
So the passage actually reads is
for all the saints and the elect of God are gathered and joined to the Lord before the tribulation that is to come, lest at any time they experience the confusion that will overwhelm the whole world because of our sins.
reading into these a pre-tribulation rapture is false especially when the rest of the text is examined, which is usually ignored or neglected by most pre-tribulation rapture proponents - and it is important to tell you two what the passages do NOT say
########################################################,p> What the passages do and do NOT say
The most important thing to notice os that the focus of deliverance is not on the tribulation itself. Christians are instead being rescued from the "confusion" that comes with that tribulation
The passages do NOT say that there is a physical gathering that requires movement - nor is it even implied. There is no mention of leaving anywhere or going to any place
the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem does NOT say we are being taken from the world or going to heaven. It simply emphasizes being gathered together to the Lord to be rescued from the confusion in a contrast to those who are being deceived and being gathered together to the AntiChrist
You can see this most clearly in section 5 of Pseudo-Ephraem
Then that worthless and abominable dragon shall appear, he, whom Moses named in Deuteronomy, saying: Dan is a young lion, reclining and leaping from Basan..."Basan" certainly is interpreted "confussion". He shall rise up from the confusion of his iniquity. The one who gathers together to himself a partridge the childrn of confusion, also shall call them, whom he has not brought forth, just as Jeremiah the prophet says. Also in the last day they shall relinquish him just as confused(section 5)
This confusion is the same as found in 2 Thess 2:8-12
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
And Matt 24:24 "they shall decieve the very elect"
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Taking it from the Greek makes it even clearer -- "The elect are gathered together before the tribulation so that they might not know the confusion and the great tribulation which is coming upon the unrighteous world"
Absolutely nothing in the original Greek can be translated as "taken" and it does not say ANYTHING about being raptured.
Pseudo Ephraem says nothing that would support a pre-tribulation rapture - in contrast it says that the elect will not be deceived by the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon unbelievers
The writer indicates that Christians will be here during the tribulation "And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord" - implying that the harvesting of Christians will take place at the same time as the end of the world
Sections 9 to 10 again reject any kind of a pre-tribulation rapture
It is amazing to me that anybody can attempt to use this document to support a pre-tribulation rapture belief when it actually supports a post-tribulation resurrection position
well, Mother Mary was blessed by God when she was created and she was blessed to be the God bearer, don’t you think God blessed her by doing so? By giving one of his creations the honor of bearing God?
Blessed? Sure.
Worthy of worship? That’s what you guys do, to your shame.
Worthy of worship? No one worships Mary as a deity - we know she is a created being.
Stop making up nonsense like this trying to think that Ephraim support the pretribulation rapture when his documents show the opposite
More: It's final, Meg, so long as he's a heretic.
Roper: Heretic! That's not a word that I like.
More: It's not a likeable word ... it's not a likeable thing
We think you give God far too little.
“All generations shall call me blessed”...
Shameless!
Mary is no more worthy of honor than her husband or her other children - she was not a permanent virgin, though you guys like to play that game of make-believe too.
As for honoring God - you don’t know me or how I honor HIM.
Keep your opinions to yourself.
I was once a Catholic like you - I know exactly what status you place for Mary. I also know how you belittle Christ during Every Single “mass” keeping his image fixed on a cross.
It is you guys who give God too little honor. Repent!
MARK THIS DAY DOWN IN FREE REPUBLIC DEBATE HISTORY....A ROMAN CATHOLIC HAS FINALLY ADMITTED WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.
Ironic considering you all Catholics give Mary some of the honor that should go to God, whereas we give it all to Him.
If you are splitting your honor then God isn't getting as much as you think you are because He's not getting all of it.
Therefore, that is a false charge.
Nah, you are the one putting your words on a picture.
What hole are you in, while you are waiting for your non-biblical pre-tribulation rapture?
It’s pretty hilarious - you use a photoshopped image and think you are making a point :)
Catholics clearly state and believe that Mary is a created being - created by God and given the singular honor of being the God bearer
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