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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Yup, nobody knows the DAY or HOUR but Jesus Himself told us to be aware of the signs of the season.

Matthew 24:1-35

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

So after this whole dissertation giving us indicators of his second coming, He then says in verse 36....But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

He then continues on in verse 37-51 to give more signs of the general time.

Not knowing the specifics of the day and hour does NOT mean not being able to know any of it at all ever.

If that were the case, then why did Jesus answer the disciples questions with specifics of what to look for?

31 posted on 02/04/2024 4:55:23 PM PST by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus…)
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To: metmom

I have often wondered why Jesus said nobody known the day or the hour. Did he know that part of the world is already tomorrow and the hour depends on what time zone your in?


35 posted on 02/04/2024 6:01:48 PM PST by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: metmom

Amos 5:18
King James Version

18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.

19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


42 posted on 02/05/2024 5:56:24 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: metmom

It appears Jesus gives an end times description of both the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and a future destruction that has not happened yet.

Too many get caught up in the”Fig Tree as Israel” narrative and it’s founding in 1948, failing to see he is simply showing them how they look to the changing of the trees to see when the seasons change.

Then he tells the to look for those greater signs of the end times, and by the time you recognize them it will be too late. The fig tree has nothing to do with it as Israel has always been mentioned as “the vine” and not a fig tree. I’m sure if I am wrong then someone on FR will catch it.


46 posted on 02/05/2024 9:28:26 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: metmom
The Olivet discourse then talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize
  1. Sign 1: false messiahs - Matt 24:4-5 -- Up to 70 AD there were several supposed messiahs in Judea who led armies against the legions. They were killed with their followers. At the time of the Jewish captivity, there were many leaders who declared themselves to be Christs (Messiahs), so that while the Romans were actually besiegin them, there were three factions within - and Josephus mentions them as "Imposters and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would exhibit manifest wonders and signs that should be performed by the providence of God. And many that were prevailed on by them suffered the punishments of their folly""

  2. Sign 2: Wars You will hear of wars and rumors of wars Matt 24:6 - there was civil war in Rome itself

  3. Sign 3: famines - during the war the Jews in Jerusalem underwent a severe famine - St. Paul wrote about it in his letter to the Corinthians (2 Cor 8)

  4. Sign 4: earthquakes erupted frequently - the city of Colossae was destroyed in an earthquake in the 50s. And Pompeii had one in 63 AD (the same Pompeii that was destroyed by volcano in 79 AD)

  5. sign 5: persecution - Matthew 24:9 - Nero's persecution killed Peter and Paul

  6. Sign 6: Apostasy - Matthew 24:10-12 - this is reflected in Revelations 2 about the Nicolaitians

  7. Sign 7 - the gospel worldwide. What did Paul say in Rom 1:8? First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world and in Col 1:5-6 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world in Paul's mind there was no doubt that the gospel had gone out into the whole world Clement wrote in 73 AD that Peter and Paul had been martyred, but not before they "taught righteousness to the whole world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west" -- the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

    Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"
    Matthew 24:14
    This gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come
    Yet, Paul states that in his lifetime, the Faith of those in the Church in Rome First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. - Romans 1:8

    And in Colossians 1:5-6 Paul wrote

    5 the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.
    There was no doubt in Paul's mind that the gospel had gone out into the whole world

    This is also what the early Christians wrote about:

    • Clement of Rome in 95 AD wrote that Peter and Paul had been martyred but not before they"taught righteousness to the WHOLE world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west"

      Since both Peter and Paul were martyred before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, well

    • Justin Martyr in 120 AD wrote that from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the world the word of God

    • Eusebius even connected this to Jerusalem's destruction writing that the teaching of the new covenant was borne to all the nations and then the Romans besieged Jerusalem and destroyed it and the Temple

    the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

    Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"

  8. Sign 8: Daniel's desolating sacrilege. Matt 24:15-19. Note that the Sanhedrin believed that this had been fulfilled in 167 BC, but that did not meet Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years

    Jesus then mentions in 24:21 the Great Tribulation - which is for the Jesus-movement Jews.

    There has never been, nor will there ever be anything rivaling it. The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation


57 posted on 02/09/2024 4:27:06 AM PST by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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