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The Rise and Fall of the Evangelical Elite
PatriotandLiberty ^ | 9/23 | Stephen Wolfe

Posted on 09/20/2023 1:23:36 AM PDT by spirited irish

It is obvious now, looking back at the post-9/11 and pre-Obergefell era, that the leftward drift of this movement was inevitable. The end of Renn’s “neutral world” and the beginning of a negative world hostile to Christianity began soon after the Supreme Court’s Obergefelldecision in 2015 and accelerated rapidly with Trump’s 2016 victory. Changed circumstances undermined the attractive witness model as previously practiced. The neutral-world ethos could not hold in the negative world; the era of open debate was gone.

(Excerpt) Read more at patriotandliberty.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: drift; leftward
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To: spirited irish

Well, the whole problem is Christians who hold themselves as “elite”. The kingdom of heaven is built on humility and hard work.

CC


21 posted on 09/20/2023 5:43:03 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (My cats are more amusing than 200 channels worth of TV.)
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

Did you read the article? YRR is REFORMED meaning they don’t believe in the rapture. The Christian work done in the 19th and 20th centuries and the stand for orthodoxy was done mainly by pre-millennial Arminians.


22 posted on 09/20/2023 5:44:25 AM PDT by Othniel77
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To: spirited irish

I suspect the fall of evangelicalism and the rise of evil and lawlessness in this country if largely due to most churches doing away with midweek prayer meetings.

Nobody was gathering for corporate prayer for their communities and churches any more.


23 posted on 09/20/2023 6:52:59 AM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.)
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To: Celtic Conservative
Well, the whole problem is Christians who hold themselves as “elite”.

To what extent are they holding themselves as elite? What are originally disputes over substantive matters get layered over with "You think you're better than us," and "Yes, we are better than you," and elite versus anti-elite replaces what was originally at issue.

24 posted on 09/20/2023 7:03:13 AM PDT by x
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook
Rattlesnake_Snook
Since Jun 26, 2023

Welcome to FR.

The Evangelical movement was always attached to that non-biblical “rapture” nonsense, and basically as decades and decades pass the firm believers, who are paranoid about dying a natural death, realize it was all bull-honkey and now realize they gotta die like everyone else, and this basically fried their brain and like all people who’s beliefs get totally shattered, they immediately move onto some other radical movement as cope, even one which contradicts their previous system of beliefs

What's it to you whether someone believes that the rapture is going to happen?

How do you think it makes a lick of difference in how one lives their life before God?

25 posted on 09/20/2023 7:03:33 AM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.)
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook
The Evangelical movement was always attached to that non-biblical “rapture” nonsense, and basically as decades and decades pass the firm believers, who are paranoid about dying a natural death, realize it was all bull-honkey and now realize they gotta die like everyone else, and this basically fried their brain and like all people who’s beliefs get totally shattered, they immediately move onto some other radical movement as cope, even one which contradicts their previous system of beliefs

You are doing some massive projecting there. Most of us realize that we will die before the rapture takes place. I don't know a single person who holds to the rapture who is afraid of dying. If you are ready for the rapture, you are ready for death. If you are ready for death, you are ready for the rapture.

Which ever way God chooses to take me, is fine with me, although I think it would be really awesome to be changed in the twinkling of an eye and caught up to heaven.

What a unique experience that would be.

But I also realize that I could die today and it's not *if* but when and how and I have precious little say in that matter.

26 posted on 09/20/2023 7:08:07 AM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.)
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To: Othniel77
“Did you read the article? YRR is REFORMED meaning they don’t believe in the rapture. “

No, they just don’t believe in a rapture separate from the second coming of Christ. The rapture is part of the parousia.

27 posted on 09/20/2023 8:04:09 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: spirited irish

Trump is weak on gay marriage. Always has been. Overlooked it because he promised to give us good judges and he delivered for the most part. Homosexual acts are unnatural. There’s no right to a so-called gay marriage, I don’t care what the Supreme Court says and I don’t care how many Republicans buckle on it or how weak Trump is on it. It paves the way for the gender nonsense, they’re intimately linked. Trump now seems to be buckling on abortion, showing us his true heart on the issue. I will vote for him over Biden but my hopes are not high for a second term. Will he give us more good judges or squishes? Evangelicals, Catholics, Orthodox Jews and other people need to take a sane, bold, prophetic position in defense of the natural law whatever sleepy nonsense (1 Thess 5:6) we get from our religious and political leadership.


28 posted on 09/20/2023 11:43:13 AM PDT by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: spirited irish

Christianity Today editor Russell Moore (promoted early on by Al Mohler) wrote an article, “A White Church No More,” for The New York Times, in which he accuses Trump supporters of “nativism” who will be “shocked” to see the “dark-skinned, Aramaic-speaking ‘foreigner’” on His heavenly throne. Trump’s supporters are not on the “right side of Jesus,” Moore claimed.
.........................................

Uh, NO.


29 posted on 09/20/2023 12:52:16 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz

In our age of secularist hostility, you must decide whether drag queen story hour is a blessing of liberty or a license to be destroyed; whether you want pagan nationalism or Christian nationalism; whether degeneracy or righteousness will prevail, and whether Satan or the Lord Jesus will rule over this land.
......................................

It’s pretty clear Satan already rules over America.


30 posted on 09/20/2023 12:54:15 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ansel12

So now you are making false accusations against me?

Well you enjoy children being turned into transsexuals and you hate Donald Trump and defend Hunter Biden.


31 posted on 09/20/2023 2:02:59 PM PDT by Rattlesnake_Snook
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To: Dartoid; SeekAndFind; Skwor; metmom

7 Reasons Against The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
https://pastorvlad.org/tribulation/

Why The Rapture In the Bible Isn’t What You Think
https://www.rethinknow.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-the-rapture/

Paul Didn’t Believe in the Rapture. Neither Did Jesus. Neither Should You.
https://theologycurator.com/paul-jesus-rapture/

Catholic theology doesn’t support ‘the rapture’
https://catholicphilly.com/2021/11/catholic-spirituality/catholic-theology-doesnt-support-the-rapture/

Five Myths About the Rapture
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=5788

The Rapture’s Faulty Theology
https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-raptures-faulty-theology

How to Read the ‘Rapture’ Verses
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/how-to-read-the-rapture-verses


32 posted on 09/20/2023 2:07:42 PM PDT by Rattlesnake_Snook
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

I didn’t post any lies about you, you are rabidly pro-abortion because you feel it kills blacks and on this thread, you are very nasty in detesting our most conservative voting block of Christians.


33 posted on 09/20/2023 2:11:35 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

“you are rabidly pro-abortion because you feel it kills black”

Lies

“you are very nasty in detesting our most conservative voting block of Christians.”

The rapture is not Christian so how can criticizing it be anti-Christian?

7 Reasons Against The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
https://pastorvlad.org/tribulation/

Why The Rapture In the Bible Isn’t What You Think
https://www.rethinknow.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-the-rapture/

Paul Didn’t Believe in the Rapture. Neither Did Jesus. Neither Should You.
https://theologycurator.com/paul-jesus-rapture/

Catholic theology doesn’t support ‘the rapture’
https://catholicphilly.com/2021/11/catholic-spirituality/catholic-theology-doesnt-support-the-rapture/

Five Myths About the Rapture
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=5788

The Rapture’s Faulty Theology
https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-raptures-faulty-theology

How to Read the ‘Rapture’ Verses
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/how-to-read-the-rapture-verses


34 posted on 09/20/2023 2:19:30 PM PDT by Rattlesnake_Snook
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

Well, you are as troll-like on the threads about Christians as you are on the abortion threads.

You are a particularly nasty retread.


35 posted on 09/20/2023 2:41:34 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

You have a divided mind and a spirit of confusion. Your very first link acknowledges the rapture and supports it biblically, it is just that it argues more for post trib.

This you present as one of your arguments against any rapture. There is no gain for either of us and I refuse to debate a fool as biblically defined.


36 posted on 09/20/2023 2:43:08 PM PDT by Skwor
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

In your original post, you did not specify pre, mid or post tribulation rapture.

You simply used the word “rapture” as if believing in it were unbiblical.

Christians who believe the Bible ALL believe the rapture will occur someday as taught clearly in scripture.

The disagreement has always been WHEN ( the timing ) it will occur, NOT whether or not it will occur.


37 posted on 09/20/2023 3:22:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Rattlesnake_Snook

Let’s take one of the articles you posted entitled:

Paul Didn’t believe in the Rapture. Neither did Jesus, Neither Should You.

[EXCERPT FROM THAT ARTICLE]

Paul does certainly believe that Christ will return. But as we see in other Pauline passages, including this one, Christ will return to render resurrection to humankind (of which Jesus is the first). Pulling other passages in Paul together the picture of what God will do when Christ comes back is more profound than escaping this planet.

God’s goal in Christ is to resurrect, purge, heal, and establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.

[END EXCERPT]

I don’t see how ANY Christian ( Evangelicals included) disagree with this eventual state. The disagreement has always been THE TIMING of when this will occur or whether or not certain events must take place before this ultimate state will be established.

At any rate, I fail to see how SPECIFIC disagreements regarding this partIcular eschatological issue relates to the left wing drift of certain Evangelicals ( the topic of this thread). Maybe you can explain how they relate…


38 posted on 09/20/2023 3:34:14 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: ansel12

As usual you are all name calling and no substance. Have a nice day.


39 posted on 09/20/2023 3:57:23 PM PDT by Rattlesnake_Snook
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To: SeekAndFind; Skwor

When most people these days say “rapture” they mean the idea that some people will just disappear from earth and airplanes will fall from the sky, which of course is totally false


40 posted on 09/20/2023 3:59:14 PM PDT by Rattlesnake_Snook
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