Posted on 09/11/2023 9:23:22 AM PDT by ebb tide
I have to say that yours is the best explanation I have heard, but I am still a little confused...
Looking at your answer, you say that salvation is a free gift that requires only belief and not works.
This sounds like the evidence some Protestants put forth that baptism is not necessary—is that what you propose?
And others who say that we must be born again of water, so is baptism a work and therefore unnecessary? Or is baptism necessary?
And there are those who say mere belief is not sufficient, for even the demons believe and tremble.
Thus there remain those who examine the Bible sincerely and come to different conclusions.
(If you bring up the issue of works because of the belief common among Protestants that Catholics believe that we are saved by works, Catholicism teaches that faith without works is dead, not that we are saved by works, (lest we boast). Just a little clarification.)
All who are Born Again have a Spirit, soul and body.
Created in His image.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Superstitious people don’t realize they are superstitious.
Define spirit, soul and body using the bible....
It's funny how they take that literally (ignoring context, reason, and every other exegetical interpretation of “Take, eat; this is my body.” [Matthew 26:26]) and use it to mean their "holy Eucharist" sustains their righteousness (until next week); and yet, they MISS the explicit meaning of so much else in Scripture, relying on their magisterium to supply their understanding of who God is and what He wants from His people (unless it's their current "pope").
Run-on sentence? yes.
Your obviously trolling for a response with a predestined reply. So let’s skip the initial response and move forward to the point your itching to make.
Agreed.
They are taught that their leader is infallible, but the Word of God is fallible and treated like a buffet to pick and choose according to the flesh’s likes and dislikes.
Oh, and the special on the buffet for Friday’s is fish. But only during a certain time of the year.
So in your estimation this one phrase, out of context, trumps the other scriptures that say (often explicitly) that Christians don't go to heaven right away?
Act 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
Act 2:34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
Act 2:35 TILL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL." '
So David didn't go to heaven. Jesus did. Jesus ascended. David did not. Where is David? In the grave. Until Christ returns.
1Th_4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
The dead in Christ, including David, will wake and be resurrected to glory when Christ returns.
So, if The Bible is not sufficient, then what do we have to add to it?
Or, what do we have to change and correct in it?
I'm not trolling. I'm trying to get people to look at the bible. I'm not going to engage in a conversation where the ground rules are that we can offer traditional views as evidence that trump the bible.
Good questions, Bob!
Let’s wait for ebb’s answer.
Join the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no Salvation.
Not sure of your point, but feel free to expound on your point about the Spirit.
Oh! THERE you are!
Good one, ebb!
Always entertaining us with fantasies.
Thank you! I took your response as a compliment.
The baptism of Jesus was absolutely necessary. He took care f that and everything else for me according to the plain reading of the Bible.
What you reference is a problem common to all communication. What I love about the Bible is that it answers all these questions internally. You see, you have quoted James 2 to mean that you really do have to do the works after all. The Bible claim of not works is academic and theoretical, the Catholic claim of doing the works is real. In other words, either do the works or go to Hell, just be careful to call it faith when you do them.
Another example, you quoted James 2:19 to mean that believe cannot mean believe, but if you look at it what James is saying, it is clear he doesn’t contradict John 3:16.
Jesus is a person, a real person.
He said in His Book that He took care of everything for me.
I trust Him completely because of what He said about Himself in that Book.
I told Him on August 9, 1967 that I believed Him, and “O the joy that floods my soul”.
ebbtide can say I am dumb.
Jesus does not agree.
You asked for it.
So, if The Bible is not sufficient, then what do we have to add to it?
Or, what do we have to change and correct in it?
The part's that's scary is that the RCC'ers believe that it happens only when a clergy member (apostolic succession) blesses the elements. That adds an unhealthy element to the relationship between the leaders and the average Joe's (I hate the term "laity"). The same for other RCC beliefs. Can't they believe in purgatory and absolution without believing it's dependent on the clergy? Or can't they believe that apostolic succession happens through the TEACHINGS of the apostles instead of who can claim they're part of the apostolic clique?
This unhealthy dynamic makes it a lot harder for the good Catholics to reform their leaders. Unlike, say, the good Baptists recently kicking out their top dog. Or the good Methodists recently deciding to move their entire local congregations out of the hedonist United Methodist Conference when the leaders of the UMC made it clear they weren't repenting. An argument could be made that Methodists have recently chosen to be more authentically Methodist (read: more like Wesley's teachings of holiness living) than they were recently before they left the UMC.
As long as the average Joe Catholics believe that they can't be real Catholics without the clergy then the clergy have a power over the good Catholics that hamstrings the good Catholics from implementing necessary reforms.
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