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To: kinsman redeemer; patriot torch
The part that's scariest to me of the RCC belief in transubstantiation is not the argument over whether the elements become the real flesh and blood of Jesus or whether it's symbolic (do this in remembrance of Me). I can see how one would believe either way.

The part's that's scary is that the RCC'ers believe that it happens only when a clergy member (apostolic succession) blesses the elements. That adds an unhealthy element to the relationship between the leaders and the average Joe's (I hate the term "laity"). The same for other RCC beliefs. Can't they believe in purgatory and absolution without believing it's dependent on the clergy? Or can't they believe that apostolic succession happens through the TEACHINGS of the apostles instead of who can claim they're part of the apostolic clique?

This unhealthy dynamic makes it a lot harder for the good Catholics to reform their leaders. Unlike, say, the good Baptists recently kicking out their top dog. Or the good Methodists recently deciding to move their entire local congregations out of the hedonist United Methodist Conference when the leaders of the UMC made it clear they weren't repenting. An argument could be made that Methodists have recently chosen to be more authentically Methodist (read: more like Wesley's teachings of holiness living) than they were recently before they left the UMC.

As long as the average Joe Catholics believe that they can't be real Catholics without the clergy then the clergy have a power over the good Catholics that hamstrings the good Catholics from implementing necessary reforms.

120 posted on 09/11/2023 1:19:34 PM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Tell It Right

Their claim to transubstantiation is actually blasphemous because they claim to create Jesus Christ every time some pompous impostor in a turned around collar claims through his hocus pocus to pull a rabbit from his hat.

“I hate the term “laity”

Jesus hated the deeds of the Nicolatians. Which was to exalt clergy over laity.

Revelation 2:4-6

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

What began with the deeds of the Nicolaitanes during the period of the Ephesian Church soon developed into a doctrine during the period of the Pergamos church. Afterwards, Thyatira arose and gave full expression to the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, an evil that the Lord Jesus Christ hates. It is men seeking lordship over the assembly of God.

https://www.christiantreasury.org/content/deeds-and-doctrine-nicolaitanes


125 posted on 09/11/2023 1:58:53 PM PDT by patriot torch (..)
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To: Tell It Right
The part that's scariest to me of the RCC belief in transubstantiation is not the argument over whether the elements become the real flesh and blood of Jesus or whether it's symbolic (do this in remembrance of Me).

Here's why I think the first option above is scary--if the bread and wine are the literal flesh and blood of Jesus, then the partaker is sacrificing Jesus all over again, paralleling Hebrews 6:6.

I don't know about you, but that scares me to death.

141 posted on 09/11/2023 3:40:40 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux - The Ultimate Windows Service Pack )
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