Posted on 08/16/2023 6:39:10 AM PDT by zucchini bob
(2 Peter 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (Isaiah 28:10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:13) But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
No one can post the verses. It’s a crock, see post 855. 😁😅🤣😆🤔😚
Iff’n ya can’t believe Paul or the first pope; then who CAN ya??
“It’s a CROCK!”, said the beast, thru his tears.
“Prots give it up, allay all your fears.”
We’re still Number One,
Thru it all, it’s been fun.
Rome’s been FIRST - thru all of these years!
----> God tells us that God’s Word isn’t His Word?
Someone has been smoking the sofa
No actually, I never smoked anything in my life.
Perhaps, and I'm only suggesting what's possible here,
perhaps the lack of clarity is on your end through your misunderstanding.
I say this, because that is often the case when someone
tries to lay down the "God Card" as push back.
I made no statement, or claim, against God's Word, isn't God's Word, those are your words.
I simply referenced the application of scripture, specifically PETER,
where in 2 Pete 3 HE correctly warns against abuse of scripture:
There are some things in them (Paul's letters) hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
.
Now you, and your friends, whole heartily concur with Peter here - as well as I do.
Actually, you guys even more so, as you employ this to the extent where many of you accuse the mis-guided Catholics of doing exactly what Peter warned against: Twisting Scripture to their own destruction. Si?
I think you agree, twisting scripture is a bad rule of Faith.
.
So how you get "God's Word is not God's Word" out of that I cannot understand.
It is PETER who clearly warns "Scripture can be twisted to ones own destruction"
So your "God card" push back reply only serves to deflect I feel.
God is Awesome- His Word is Awesome. And the Word was made FLESH.(Elsie)
.
So now lets go through the logic of what we know.
In scripture, we know there are people misunderstanding- twisting-applying scripture to their own destruction. We know Peter is warning against that-
and tells his converts to be aware of this
and avoid the instability of lawless men who twist scripture..
.
Now the ONLY point being by me here is that - the Prospect of Scripture being solely adequate-
all on its own- "ALONE" -
without ANY other element for understanding- as clearly able to be mis-used, as evidenced through Peter's Scriptural warning to us- just isn't practical.
On its own- Scripture can be misused. Period.
It's still God's Word- even if misunderstood or not.
Though WITHOUT anything else, spiritual guides, teachers, priests -Exegesis- (dare I say "doctrines"?)
WITHOUT anything else, scripture ALONE, by itself-
without anything companion with it -
can't be soley adequate- ON ITS OWN- without anything else- and cannot be the sole Authority of the Christian Faith.
.
That concept is an invented one, and logically cannot exist outside a vacuum.
Some can get Sceripture right, sure- Many do, and will get it wrong.
Without any authority, Alone-it is inadequate.
So lets redefine what "Alnoe" really means to be.
Scripture is Awesome- but you need more than just the Book.
While its an obvious logical statement to make- many will decide not to agree.
It does not.
The passage from Peter doesn't say that the Scripture is the problem but that the people are.
2 Peter 3:14 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
Scripture is God's Truth, and it MUST be as it is breathed out by God's Spirit, who cannot lie or change.
To claim that Scripture can destroy someone and say that it's not good enough, is to sit in judgment of God and His work in giving us special revelation about Himself and say that it's evil and works destruction in and of itself.
So Catholicism, in its usual chutzpah, decides again to *help* God out by allegedly improving on the inadequate job He did in communicating with us.
TO claim that Scripture works to destroy someone is a very serious affront to God.
It's like a 2 year old taking a crayon to the Mona Lisa thinking that he is improving on the work of da Vinci.
As far as WHY people don't understand Scripture....
The fault is not with the perfect special revelation of God to man, but of man not having spiritual discernment.
1 Corinthians 2:11-16 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
What an indictment of Catholicism.
Clearly Catholics don't understand Scripture since they had to add the Catechism of the Catholic church to *explain* it all to them, and add *sacred tradition* to the mix. And who's going to interpret the CCC for the people?
One man’s ‘twist’ is another’s straight and narrow.
I'm still waiting for this QUOTE.
--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!!)
Don’t worry; CWD - GOD will STILL accept you after years of being on the wrong path.
I could certainly agree with that. When I was a Catholic, I had no spiritual understanding at all. Not even a little bit.
Someone sure as hell needs to!!
882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.” 883 “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” As such, this college has “supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff.” Sure different than what Augustine and many OTHER Early Church Fathers taught; isn't it How the Catechism of the Catholic Church” now describes the “Petrine succession”: 881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.
PART ONE SECTION TWO CHAPTER TWO The Good News: God has sent his Son 422 'But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.'1 This is 'the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God':'2 God has visited his people. He has fulfilled the promise he made to Abraham and his descendants. He acted far beyond all expectation - he has sent his own 'beloved Son'.3 423 We believe and confess that Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem at the time of King Herod the Great and the emperor Caesar Augustus, a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of the emperor Tiberius, is the eternal Son of God made man. He 'came from God',4 'descended from heaven',5 and 'came in the flesh'.6 For 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. . . And from his fullness have we all received, grace upon grace.'7 424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'8 On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9 |
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What can I do ? How am I even supposed to know I am in error in the first place?
I'm destroying my own soul, reading my Bible the way I understand it to speak to me.
I get to have my own personal interpretation of scripture, right?
How can this destroy me then? How can this be?
I heard all I had to do was read my Bible... I'll get it..
Sure I see all these other Bibles around..
Why should it matter which one is the right one? And how do I trust someone telling me I am reading in error in the first place?
Maybe they are in error, not me.
What if I have another tell me, the person that is correcting me is wrong-
and they say that I should listen to them- not the other guy.
This Moromon kid was pretty nice to me the other day.
He says my Bible is wrong, his is right.
What the hell am I supposed to believe now?
Someone told me ALL I needed was the scripture in the Bible-
NOTHING ELSE- NO ONE ELSE- and NO organizations...
that the Words on those pages are totally ADEQUATE for ALL I need to know about God- and to stay out of trouble.
And now I sit here condemned, affronting God- Which I don't want to do-
THAT'S why I am reading this book in the first place
And now I'm told my personal interpretation of my Bible is wrong.
But thats all I need- this Bible in front of me.
Sounds like circular rasoning.
Lost in Peoria.
“It’s like a 2 year old taking a crayon to the Mona Lisa thinking that he is improving on the work of da Vinci.”
Sort of. Except daVinci wasn’t God, and the Mona Lisa wasn’t inspired (God breathed).
John 20:30-31Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Salvation is through trusting Jesus Christ to save you through HIS finished work of redemption on the cross.
Jesus Himself said that we much be born again, born spiritually.
All it takes is faith.
I don't see anywhere where God is going to give someone a theology test to enter heaven and that we have to have our doctrine perfect, which can never happen. Someone can cross all the t's and dot all the i's, just like the Pharisees did, and yet they were still lost.
Become the publican and ask God to have mercy on you and reveal to you what you need to know to be saved.
Anyone asking in trust (faith) believing God will answer will get an answer from Him. He will never turn away a sincere seeker.
And ask Him to give you spiritual eyes to see and understand spiritual truths, as the natural man, the unredeemed man, cannot because he is dead spiritually. And THAT is why people wrest Scripture to their own destruction. No connection with God.
”Before Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was defined, all theological faculties in the world were consulted for their opinion. Our teachers' answer was emphatically negative. What here became evident was the one-sidedness, not only of the historical, but of the historicist method in theology. “Tradition” was identified with what could be proved on the basis of texts. Altaner, the patrologist from Wurzburg…had proven in a scientifically persuasive manner that the doctrine of Mary’s bodily Assumption into heaven was unknown before the 5C; this doctrine, therefore, he argued, could not belong to the “apostolic tradition. And this was his conclusion, which my teachers at Munich shared. This argument is compelling if you understand “tradition” strictly as the handing down of fixed formulas and texts…But if you conceive of “tradition” as the living process whereby the Holy Spirit introduces us to the fullness of truth and teaches us how to understand what previously we could still not grasp (cf. Jn 16:12-13), then subsequent “remembering” (cf. Jn 16:4, for instance) can come to recognize what it has not caught sight of previously and was already handed down in the original Word,” J. Ratzinger, Milestones (Ignatius, n.d.), 58-59.
Isn’t it funny how simple editing can completely change the meaning of a statement? Your editing (bolding and snipping) gives Ratzinger's words a whole different meaning than he intended.
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