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[Catholic Caucus] "It is not the traditionalists, but Roche who ignores the Council": Luisella Scrosati's latest column
Rorate Caeli ^ | April 6, 2023 | Luisella Scrosati

Posted on 04/10/2023 8:24:27 AM PDT by ebb tide

[Catholic Caucus] "It is not the traditionalists, but Roche who ignores the Council": Luisella Scrosati's

The prefect of the Dicastery for Divine Worship, Cardinal Arthur Roche, just cannot seem to show that he has at least some familiarity with the role he has been wretchedly entrusted with. Or rather, to give the appearance of it he should systematically keep quiet. But, how does one do that? A Dicastery prefect sooner or later has to say something if someone asks him questions....

The fact is that it took less than thirty seconds (here from minute 10:37) of response to a BBC.com report on the war on the ancient Mass to show the whole world that Roche has no idea where the liturgy belongs. And to make it blatant that it is he who is against the Second Vatican Council, not those who attend the Ancient Rite.

"The theology of the Church has changed. Whereas before the priest represented, at a distance, all the people who were channeled through this person who alone celebrated the Mass," now "it is not only the priest who celebrates the liturgy, but also those who are baptized with him, and this is a huge statement to make." This is the judgment of the former bishop of Leeds.

Good. Now let's ask the cardinal two sets of questions, the answers to which, for a prefect of Divine Worship, should be easy peasy. Let's start with the first set: was the encyclical Mediator Dei written before or after the Second Vatican Council? Are Sacrosanctum Concilium and Lumen Gentium Vatican II documents or earlier? Roche will surely have answered correctly: Mediator Dei predates Vatican II, having been written in 1947 by Pius XII, while Sacrosanctum Concilium is the liturgical constitution of the same Council and Lumen Gentium a dogmatic constitution.

So, according to the theological shift advocated by Roche, we should find significant differences between the three magisterial documents. In particular, we should expect Mediator Dei to affirm the exclusivity of the priest in the celebration of the Divine Mysteries, while Sacrosanctum Concilium and Lumen Gentium teach that faithful and priests offer the divine victim together, indistinctly.

Instead, unfortunately for Roche, Mediator Dei expresses it this way, "In this way private action and ascetic effort [...] dispose [the faithful] to participate with better dispositions in the august sacrifice of the altar, to receive the sacraments with greater fruit, to celebrate the sacred rites." The faithful were participating and celebrating the sacred rites even before the Council.

Even more explicitly, Mediator Dei teaches that "the faithful also offer the divine victim, under a different aspect" than ordained ministers. And, just to complicate Roche's position even more, Pius XII thinks to call to the rescue no less than Innocent III to teach that the faithful are not replaced by the priest who does everything: "Not only do priests offer, but also all the faithful: for what in particular is accomplished by the ministry of priests, is universally accomplished by the vow of the faithful."

A little further on, Pius XII links this action of offering proper to the faithful to their baptismal priesthood, a workhorse of the "conciliarists": "Nor is it any wonder that the faithful are elevated to such a dignity. By the washing of Baptism, in fact, Christians become, in a common capacity, members of the Mystical Body of Christ the Priest, and, by means of the 'character' which is imprinted on their souls, they are deputed to divine worship, participating, thus, suitably to their state, in the priesthood of Christ."

On the other hand, we find that it is precisely Sacrosanctum Concilium that teaches that this common action of the whole Church, head and members provides for a hierarchical distinction in liturgical action: "such actions belong to the whole body of the Church, they manifest it and imply it; but the individual members are concerned with it in different ways, according to the diversity of their states, offices and effective participation" (No. 26).

The Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium shows that this distinction is not merely practical or honorable; in fact, "the common priesthood of the faithful and the ministerial or hierarchical priesthood" differ "essentially and not only in degree: the ministerial priesthood, by virtue of the sacred character that is imprinted with sacramental ordination, is especially associated with the priesthood of Christ-head and therefore "forms and governs the priestly people, performs the Eucharistic sacrifice in the role of Christ and offers it to God on behalf of the whole people." on the other hand, "the faithful, by virtue of their royal priesthood, concur in the offering of the Eucharist and exercise their priesthood" in their own proper way, namely "by receiving the sacraments, by prayer and thanksgiving, by the witness of a holy life, by self-denial and industrious charity" (no. 11).

One could go on and on with the texts, but it is more than enough to understand how the "theological change" attributed to Vatican II is actually a heterodox theological current that draws on the "spirit" of the Council and not its texts. Roche must evidently be possessed by this "spirit."

The second group of questions we address to Roche concerns some expressions in the missal. Is the formula "Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty" present in the old missal or in the new one? The expression "Remember all those gathered here, whose faith and devotion you know: for them we offer you and they too offer you this sacrifice of praise" belongs to which Missal?

To both questions the Cardinal will have no difficulty answering that both the Missal he pursues and the one approved by Paul VI and then John Paul II contain these words. The first is part of the Offertory rites and emphasizes that the sacrifice is both the priest's and the faithful's, but not indistinctly-as those who, of their own free will, evidently think they can simplify it with a nice "ours"; to the exhortation, the faithful respond (even in the new rite!), "May the Lord receive this sacrifice from your hands...." They basically "channel," as Roche puts it, their offering to the priest so that he may offer it to God.

The second is taken from the Roman Canon-Eucharistic Prayer I. It does not state at all that the priest is the only one to offer, but that the faithful themselves offer. A little later this very ancient Eucharistic prayer asks the Lord to accept "this offering which we your ministers and all your family present to you," a double offering reiterated after the consecration: "we your ministers and your holy people."

And so, just to conclude, Roche should know that the current Code of Canon Law -- also post-conciliar -- provides that the priest can celebrate Mass even in the absence of the people. Check it out. Indeed, canon 904 recommends daily celebration for priests, "which, even when the presence of the faithful cannot be had, is always an act of Christ and of the Church." However, canon 906 explains that the celebration without any faithful can take place only "for just and reasonable cause." But it can happen: the priest can celebrate alone, without this involving a distortion of sound liturgical theology. It will astonish the prefect that the new canon, the one after the Council, is even more permissive than the corresponding canon 813 of the 1917 Code, the one before the Council, which required instead a "grave reason" for celebrating "alone."

If the faithful who attend the ancient Mass are to be persecuted because they do not welcome the Council, then the prefect of Divine Worship must be kicked out. For the same reason.

Luisella Scrosati
La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana
April 6, 2023
(source)


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: apostatepope; cockroche; dictatorpope; frankenchurch
If the faithful who attend the ancient Mass are to be persecuted because they do not welcome the Council, then the prefect of Divine Worship must be kicked out. For the same reason.
1 posted on 04/10/2023 8:24:27 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Al Hitan; Fedora; irishjuggler; Jaded; kalee; markomalley; miele man; Mrs. Don-o; ...

Ping


2 posted on 04/10/2023 8:27:58 AM PDT by ebb tide (The pope ... said the church’s “catechesis on sex is still in diapers.”)
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To: ebb tide
[T]he "theological change" attributed to Vatican II is actually a heterodox theological current that draws on the "spirit" of the Council and not its texts.

And this is the heart of the problem. Those who are most vocal about the alleged changes of Vatican II do not actually mean the council itself and its documents. Rather, for them "Vatican II" is merely code-word for a extra-conciliar ideology that hides behind the authority of the council.

3 posted on 04/10/2023 9:42:20 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: ebb tide

Respectfully (and most certainly not in defense of Roche), but whether intentional or not, Luisella Scrosati and Rorate Caeli mislead their readers by suggesting Vatican II was not a break from tradition on this issue. It must certainly was and Roche has no problem with making that point.

As to why Scrosati chooses to challenge him on this issue is unclear, but I suspect it is an effort to convince traditionalists to get on-board Vatican II.One must not lose sight of the fact tha neither Roche nor Scrosati are traditionalists.

Regardless, Pope Pius XII makes it quite clear that the priest, alone, offers the Sacrifice, and the faithful are mere witnesses. Any possible misreading of the earlier sections of the encyclical is cleared up in section 93 where Pope Pius states that when “speaking of the people offering with the priest,” the Church means only that the people “unite their hearts in praise, impetration, expiation and thanksgiving, with the prayers and intention of the priest, even of the High Priest Himself...”

If someone reads that section differently I would appreciate hearing from them.


4 posted on 04/10/2023 11:16:06 AM PDT by tomsbartoo (St Pius X watch over us)
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To: tomsbartoo
Regardless, Pope Pius XII makes it quite clear that the priest, alone, offers the Sacrifice, and the faithful are mere witnesses.

Wow. He says the exact opposite, multiple times. He says that not only do they offer -- though not through a visible liturgical act -- Christ the Victim through the hands of the priest, but they also offer themselves.

Now it is clear that the faithful offer the sacrifice by the hands of the priest from the fact that the minister at the altar, in offering a sacrifice in the name of all His members, represents Christ, the Head of the Mystical Body. Hence the whole Church can rightly be said to offer up the victim through Christ. But the conclusion that the people offer the sacrifice with the priest himself is not based on the fact that, being members of the Church no less than the priest himself, they perform a visible liturgical rite; for this is the privilege only of the minister who has been divinely appointed to this office: rather it is based on the fact that the people unite their hearts in praise, impetration, expiation and thanksgiving with prayers or intention of the priest, even of the High Priest himself, so that in the one and same offering of the victim and according to a visible sacerdotal rite, they may be presented to God the Father. It is obviously necessary that the external sacrificial rite should, of its very nature, signify the internal worship of the heart. Now the sacrifice of the New Law signifies that supreme worship by which the principal Offerer himself, who is Christ, and, in union with Him and through Him, all the members of the Mystical Body pay God the honor and reverence that are due to Him. -- Mediator Dei, section 93

In order that the oblation by which the faithful offer the divine Victim in this sacrifice to the heavenly Father may have its full effect, it is necessary that the people add something else, namely, the offering of themselves as a victim. -- MD, section 98

99. This offering in fact is not confined merely to the liturgical sacrifice. For the Prince of the Apostles wishes us, as living stones built upon Christ, the cornerstone, to be able as "a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."[89] St. Paul the Apostle addresses the following words of exhortation to Christians, without distinction of time, "I beseech you therefore, . . . that you present your bodies, a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service."[90] But at that time especially when the faithful take part in the liturgical service with such piety and recollection that it can truly be said of them: "whose faith and devotion is known to Thee,"[91] it is then, with the High Priest and through Him they offer themselves as a spiritual sacrifice, that each one's faith ought to become more ready to work through charity, his piety more real and fervent, and each one should consecrate himself to the furthering of the divine glory, desiring to become as like as possible to Christ in His most grievous sufferings. -- MD, section 99

Mere witnesses? Seriously?

5 posted on 04/10/2023 11:44:51 AM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion

I’m not sure it’s the exact opposite—at least as I read it. He seems to be saying that the Sacrifice is offered by the priest, alone, but the faithful have a role—but in their place—which is not at the same level as the priest. The people do this through uniting their “hearts in praise”, not by any physical act.

Vatican II places the “presider” on the same physical level as the faithful and is very likely moving toward having the extraordinary ministers physically offer the Sacrifice along with the priest. I’d be surprised if we don’t see that being permitted in the very near future. This is where they are going with it, and it has never been suggested in tradition.

Admittedly, the language is a bit murky on that issue, but he states that “this is a privilege “only for the minister.” We don’t know how involved Bugnini and Bea were when he wrote that encyclical, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that they were both very close by.


6 posted on 04/10/2023 5:23:17 PM PDT by tomsbartoo (St Pius X watch over us)
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To: tomsbartoo

He’s clearly not saying that the sacrifice is offered by the priest alone (and he goes on to say, in essence, that even if the priest _is_ alone, he’s not really alone, since the Mass is still a public act), but you’re right in that he definitely says that the manner in which the faithful offer the sacrifice is distinctly different from that of the ordained cleric.


7 posted on 04/10/2023 6:33:20 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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