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To: Elsie
where is the "believer" who was "saved" but turned back after being saved?

That's what I asked you to find. The conditions that I precisely gave you are those that the scripture declares necessary to qualify for receiving eternal life. Genuineness. (If you can lose it, it was not eternal, was it?)

No works involved. Only the omniscient heart-searching God can discern that state of mind of the "believer," as to whether hearing the Gospel preached faithfully, admits to him/herself of being spiritually dead in sins and unable to "save" oneself out of God's condemnation, and desires with his/her whole heart to be made God's obedient child with sin-debt cancelled and never-ending life in Jesus under His rule the benefit.

Where does the scripture give an instance of someone that having received this gift and experiencing the newness of it, has actually decided to change his/her mind again, and thus reject and abandon this gift?

The examples you named do not fit this description of turning to God for salvation from sin and sinning, receiving birth in the spirit, then deciding to reject God, Jesus, the new life, its benefits, and to return to a life of sinning.

See 2 Peter 2:9-22 for those who spent some time with saved people and the Christian culture, but were NOT saved, finally returning to their old ways.

93 posted on 12/10/2022 7:34:43 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux (Let There Be [God's] Light!))
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To: imardmd1

I would suggest to you that there are many “believers” that turned away from God.

The “believers” have that has those things around the word.

You are talking different things.

There are 4 categories:

1) Those that think they are saved and are

2) Those that think they are saved but are not

3) Those that don’t think they are saved and are not

4) Those that don’t think they are saved but are

So we can look at evidence but are not part of the final decision.


94 posted on 12/10/2022 7:44:10 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: imardmd1
1 Corinthians 9:24-27

24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize?
Run in such a way as to get the prize.
25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.
27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.


Paul seems (to me) that he could lose what he WORKED for.

96 posted on 12/10/2022 7:53:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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