2 Thessalonians 3:10 For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.
Show me the truly poor, and those I will help.
Show me welfare deadbeats who get free cell phones, free rent, free “help” with heating costs, free medical care, free food, etc. and I’ll show you someone who is NOT poor.
Show me “homeless” who get free food, free clothing, free housing offered to them, free drugs, and refuse to avail themselves of the many services available to come clean and put their lives together, and I’ll show you someone who is not poor but has chosen a lifestyle.
The help is there for anyone who wants it and if the government won’t, I know plenty of churches which will.
Nobody is against helping the truly poor. Those mooching off the system in the US do not qualify.
I've been involved in Eagle Scout projects that partner with homeless support organizations. If you EVER want to see people who can separate the wheat front the chaff, speak to these folks. Indeed, they kick out people from their facilities who break the rules (usually drugs or theft). Care for the poor isn't a mandate for self-immolation.
I'm not a theologian, but it is the hardened heart regarding the poor to which these parables speak. Of COURSE there are a lot of poor people there due to their own decisions. Of COURSE there are lots of organizations that focus on helping the poor. But when we meet God, will we say "yeah, there are gobs of resources and the government took over that job and they did it to themselves so I blew them off"? OR, will we take the mandate seriously, as seriously as we take paying our bills, and find a way to care for the poor in our own special way?
Absolutely nailed it, Metmom.
I would add that in the NT, even widows had to qualify as “truly in need”, while the rest were to be helped by family.
Exactly. Paul tells us how we are to give, and how tho0se,unwilling to work are to be treated. (Of course those who can’t work are another issue)
Jesus asked the man at .the pool “Do You WANT to be well?”
The man Immediately began making excuses why he couldn’t get well. But in the end, he obeyed christ, and that is when Jesus cured him and helped him.
Had the man said “No! Because that would mean I lose my piddly welfare check every month and would have to go to work if you healed me”, or “No! Because that would mean i would have to give up getting stoned every night, and i dont want to do what it takes to get clean” I seriously doubt christ would have healed him because the man would not have wanted to actually be healed, and instead would just want to feel better, (or be able to walk) while remaining on the dole and not having
Like you said, there are plenty of services available, paid for by taxes of those who work, that are available for,the sick and poor, and taxes are a form of helping those that can not help themselves, but unfortunately have gone to far too many people who can help th3mselves but choose not to)
“For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.”
That verse is for those who CAN help themselves, but whk prefer to not do so and want to live off the welfare and generosity of those who do work. Those are the people that if Jesus would ask “Do You wish to be well?” Would answer “Nope! Life is too easy and I’m not required to do anyht8ng but collect a welfare check once a month, healing would mean i would have to work, so the answer is no”
Jesus offers the ultimate help to everyone... Salvation! But THEY MUST want it. He can’t help those that wont help themselves. Folks,on the steet have made it for decades, getting enough to sustain themselves obviously, (which just proves that most are being sustained by society via taxes and welfare programs) but if asked if th3y truly want help, many will answer “nope, too much work”
From metmom: “2 Thessalonians 3:10 For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.”
Doesn’t that, as an absolute, only apply to the church, the same way this does?:
“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.”
I’m not saying the principle doesn’t apply at all, because of course it doesn’t; only that it’s not meant to be applied to the world as it is to the church.
From robowombat:
“Charity is for those of our blood. Family is (to a certain extent family) all the others are just strangers. Oh, yes, if you are a middle class straight white man see how much charity will ever be offered to you no matter what your circumstance is.”
That’s exactly the issue. Is God’s church a family, or a club? As I wrote elsewhere here, the world makes Christians go the extra mile, such as in paying twice for a Christian education. And Christians have created crisis pregnancy centers to counter societal and governmental support for abortion. But despite some exceptions, the church doesn’t adopt as the Lord calls for. It offers programs and benignly neglects and ignores poorer Christians so they give up and leave church. The difference is between the care of family, and what loving family would do for each other (personalized service to each other) and the services offered by the atheistic state in, say, a government orphanage.
If the middle class finds things difficult, then how should the poor? No, all those services and “freebies” are not as they appear. Nor do the poor have it made. Many of them are weaker members of society, average to below average in intelligence. What’s easy or not too hard for others is very hard or impossible for them, and there’s no one there to help. I had a social worker, a white man around 40, who couldn’t spell words like “aplication” (his spelling). Like public schools, the quality is often pretty subpar, just for starters. Or often not being able to even walk out an apartment door because of the threatening behavior of neighbors. I have to stop here, but so much more could be said. The poor here have both poverty and riches, and often the riches don’t make up for the poverties. Even the middle class, too, should be able to understand having both simultaneously.