Replies

Nice post, thanks. That's a long list.

Thank you. It's actually metmom's list. I was only responding to it.

Do Catholics make so much of Mary because they want to lift up the woman's gender? It's kinda their long-held version of "gender equity."

That Catholic's "make so much about Mary" is a matter of perspective. From the Church's view, what it officially teaches about Mary is the fruit of 2000 years of meditation on her role in salvation history as found in the Scriptures and in the lived experience of the Church from it's earliest days. One could conversely ask why Protestants don't say enough about Mary

The Church has held Mary in high regard for her role in salvation history from it's earliest days-- long before anyone was concerned with all of the modern gender equality stuff.

Curious. fidelis, I ping'd you because Elsie's list runs contrary to your claims HERE. And to be fair, Elsie provides no official source for these claims about Mary.

Elsie posted more than one list on that thread so I'm not sure which to respond to. You'd have to point me to her specific remarks that supposedly contradict what I said.

Also, fidelis - Do you "teach" that Mary was without sin? Do you "teach" that she was born without sin?

I'm mostly a Bible teacher so it doesn't often come up in my usual ministry, but if I were a Catholic catechist and that were the topic at hand I would teach it. One reason I would do so is because that it is what the Church teaches. But I wouldn't teach this doctrine (or anything the Church teaches) unless it was based on scriptural, historical, and reasonable evidence.

Okay. I'll play by your rules.
What is your Scriptural proof that Mary was sinless?
(snark-free question)

Be sure to make your response consistent with these:

Genesis 6:12 God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Kings 8:46 “When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one;"

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

Psalm 14:3 They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 53:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,” They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice; There is no one who does good.

Psalm 53:3 Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 143:2 And do not enter into judgment with Your servant, For in Your sight no man living is righteous.

Romans 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Luke 11:13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

Matthew 15:18-19 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

Jeremiah 30:14 ‘All your lovers have forgotten you, They do not seek you; For I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy, With the punishment of a cruel one, Because your iniquity is great And your sins are numerous.

Jeremiah 44:9 Have you forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jeremiah 32:30 Indeed the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah have been doing only evil in My sight from their youth; for the sons of Israel have been only provoking Me to anger by the work of their hands,” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 32:32 because of all the evil of the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah which they have done to provoke Me to anger—they, their kings, their leaders, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Here are some key words and phrases to keep in mind:
all flesh
every one of you
we
none
all
both Jews and Greeks
everyone

I look forward to your reply. It needs to be indisputable and consistent with my list of verses from God's Word. It should not be from "tradition", uninspired declarations of man, or wall paintings.