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To: MHGinTN

“Who is the following identifying?“

Here are some of the passages relevant to the 24 elders:

Revelation 1:5-6 NKJV
And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 3:21 NKJV
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Revelation 4:4 NKJV
Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

Revelation 5:4-5 & 8-11 NKJV
So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”…
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.

Revelation 5:13 NKJV
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

Revelation 7:9-14 NKJV
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God. saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.“

Revelation 11:15-18 NKJV
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying:
“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Revelation 14:3 NKJV
They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 19:1-4 NKJV
After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!”

Revelation 20:4 NKJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The 24 elders are humans. They are individuals. They are among the redeemed. They speak on behalf of the “saints”. They have attributes of “kings and priests” such as crowns, thrones, and priestly activities in which they are engaged. They count themselves among those who have been redeemed from every nation.

This not be a depiction of ALL of the body of Christ, i.e. the Church, for a few reasons. The Church would be comprised of an uncountable multitude of which they describe themselves to be part. Yet, such an uncountable multitude is not found to be present when these elders are introduced. Indeed, even in the same passage, there are multitudes worshipping God who are located in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and in the sea. There are descriptions of many millions of angels before the throne. There are descriptions of great multitudes of saints in chapters 7 and 19. (See above.) Yet, when the 24 elders are introduced, the multitudes of saints are noticeably absent. It’s certainly not due to lack of room, as the other groups are incredibly large. Further, the elders are again present when these multitudes of saints are later depicted as appearing in the throne room of Heaven.

The 24 elders are saints who serve as some type of headship over many other saints (perhaps all?). But whether these saints are located in Heaven, on earth, or in both places does not seem to be indicated anywhere in these passages.

Trying to ascertain the timing of the rapture using anecdotes or breadcrumbs and clues is not going to make the case to anyone but those who are already sold on the idea before presenting such “evidence”. Revelation does not even present a literal depiction of the rapture. From this book it might be possible to piece together a timeline such as a seven-year period using passages that describe 42 months, etc. However, it is not Revelation but Daniel that gives us the specific details we need. Revelation and the Olivet Discourse add details.

Likewise, Revelation provides further details, but it is from other major prophetic passages that we can piece together a timeline of relevant events. These many other passages clearly indicate that the Day of the Lord is distinct from the Great Tribulation.


42 posted on 06/23/2022 8:16:32 PM PDT by unlearner (Si vis pacem, para bellum. Let him who desires peace prepare for war.)
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To: unlearner
I believe you have erred. You assert they would be of an uncountable number, mistaking them for the number coming out of the great tribulation. They are not from that group since they already have their crowns which they cast before the Lamb. Sorry, not going any further with such an error glaring.

The four and twenty elders represent a category identity just as the four and twenty in David's assigning represented families tasked with service inn the temple to aid the Levitical priesthood.

The four and twenty are IN HEAVEN witnessing the taking and opening of the Seven Sealed Scroll. I take their presence to represent the Body of Christ Believers Raptured before the Tribulation. The great clue so many miss is the opening chapter in the Revelation, with a clause repeated in chapter five. You've missed it too and substituted a fancy alternative.

43 posted on 06/23/2022 8:37:32 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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