“What you are doing is cherry-picking verses and twisting the message to suit your preconceived notions.”
I have an orchard of ripe fruit. I cite large portions. Chapters. Whole books of the Bible. I point out running themes. Cherry-picking would be using “proof texts” where the argument being made has little to do with the passage itself.
But the pre-tribulationist position is argued from cherry picked passages. I know. I grew up with it. I come from the Brethren Assemblies which were founded by J.N. Darby—the one who systematized the pre-trib position. He is somewhat responsible for popularizing it, but Scofield is the main person who exposed the broader Evangelical Christian community to the idea. The great irony is that the idea of strictly adhering to the Bible rather than being followers of people is a foundational precept. Most claim to do this, but few are really willing to examine any of their closely-held beliefs in the light of scripture.
The general framework most of us already agree on: Christ’s future bodily return and literal earthly kingdom. Daniel’s 70th week has not happened yet and will at the time when God brings Israel to national repentance and salvation. Antichrist will rise to power in the first half, but will break his covenant/treaty with Israel in the exact middle. There is a specific event commonly called the rapture in which believers who have not died will be transformed and caught up in the air to meet Christ. This is accompanied by the bodies of dead believers being resurrected. The only major issue in dispute among the majority is when the rapture will occur in relation to the 70th week. Most arguments are made using anecdotal evidence and by examining small pieces of the puzzle. But it is difficult to describe the entire scene of a puzzle based on a few pieces when the puzzle is not yet fully assembled.
There are some things that are easy to understand in the Bible. There are some things even children or those with very little intelligence or education can understand. The matters we are discussing are difficult ones, even for very educated scholars. And truthfully my knowledge on Bible prophecy is like a grain of sand on the seashore. But what I do know, I hold onto like a jewel.
“You have a martyr complex.”
This is the second time you’ve made that unfounded claim. Do you even know what the term means?
According to Wikipedia: “In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term ‘victim complex’, desires the feeling of being a martyr for their own sake and seeks out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a physical need or a desire to avoid responsibility.”
Of the posts on this thread, yours sound more like someone playing the victim. Challenging your sacred cows might seem like persecution, but it isn’t. And this is especially true when the whole point is to help prepare people for what is actually going to happen rather than setting their expectations for what they prefer will happen.
Somebody is going to be very disappointed. And I can assure you it isn’t going to be me. That’s because even if I’m wrong I’m better off. That is, Christ coming sooner than expected is not a bad thing to anyone who is ready and looking for His return. Unfortunately, those who fail to distinguish (as the Bible clearly does) between God’s wrath and the judgments of the great tribulation are likely to become very disillusioned if they find themselves facing the Antichrist’s severe persecution, and they’ve convinced themselves or allowed themselves to be convinced by others that this could never happen.
For those of us who believe we must go through the Great Tribulation before Christ’s return, these events, though unpleasant, are a signal that Christ’s return is imminent. It will give us the comfort and joy to endure to the end. The comfort also includes the promise that we are not appointed for wrath. Tribulation, yes. Wrath (from God), no.
Acts 14:22 NKJV
[Paul and Barnabas were] strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Romans 8:35-37 NKJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
Luke 21:28 NKJV
Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.
It’s almost impossible for me to take anybody seriously who uses Darby’s name as the source of The Pretribulation Rapture.
Especially since Jesus, Paul and John all refer to it.
Not to mention a plethora of early Church writers as well.
You wish to believe what you wish to believe. Go for it.
There are few people who know how to handle Bible Prophecy.
It’s the very reason why Revelation is ridiculed as “hard to comprehend” and “divisive” by most heretical preachers.
If you did an honest study of the book, with an open heart, mind, and spirit, you would see things that make it impossible for God to not rapture His Bride from this earth.
*His Character
*His promises
*His use of Language describing His Children
*His use of Language describing the heathen
*John’s cluelessness regarding who those martyred souls were
*The lack of “grace thru faith” for ‘Trib Saints”
*The different destiny’s of Israel, The Church, and Trib Saints
Among many many other things.
There is a reason why that book states what it does in Rev 1:3
Your argument is not with me. It’s with God and His Holy Word.