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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
Mark, I’m astounded any adult could support a thief, or believe her fairy tales.
But we’re seeing it.
I still find it very funny that according to your own standards, Phil, that the founder of your own religion is a damned sinner.
I’d have more respect if you chose to condemn her with the same intensity that you choose to condemn everyone else.
But instead you choose to embrace your double standard.
Hypocrisy is a sin.
I wonder what the sinless 6 foot quakers on the moon would think of that? Or was it Jupiter? I just can’t keep JS, BY, and EGW separate. 😄😀
I really did, however, like the movie “First Men in the Moon,” with Lionel Jeffries, Martha Hyer, and Edward Judd. 👍😀
Luircin, as you know, the extensive theft of other’s written works,
and presenting it as her own work is just the tip of the iceberg about Ellen White.
Yes, pretty weird, isn’t it? I think what we need now, is another movie, called “First men in Jupiter.” 😀😃😊
But there is only one resurrection per each descendant from Adam.
Lazarus was not given a new body when Jesus called him out of the tomb. THE Resurrection I thought you want to addres is the spiritual resurrection to a new physical body of greater dimensional variability than we now occupy. You could also cite Jarius’s daughter, or the child Elijah brought back to life, or ... you get tha gist, right?
But there is only one resurrection per each descendant from Adam.
What about Lazarus?
***
Forgive me if this is interjecting unnecessarily.
‘Resurrection’ has a specific meaning in the theological sense. It means to return to life from death and never to die again. At least to never die the death of the body again.
What Lazarus experienced was more akin to a miraculous revival than a full-on resurrection.
/sarcasm
Whew, you had me goin’ there for a minute. I’m an old man and somewhat naive to sarcasm.
Thank you brother.
See you in the OSAS pre trib rapture. 😀😄😃🤗
In my best toy story spaceman voice (sorry Tim ): ‘To the OSAS rapture escape and beyond!’ See youin the clouds, Brother!
LOL!
Page 17
Considering all factors necessary in reaching a just conclusion on this issue, it is submitted that the writings of Ellen G. White were conclusively unplagiaristic.
CONCLUSIONS:
Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents, we conclude that Ellen G. White was not a plagiarist and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.
By:_______________________
Vincent L. Ramik
VLR/skl
https://whiteestate.org/legacy/issues-ramik-html/
Oh hey, lookit Phil waving around his double standards again!
In Phil world, non SDAs are guilty and can’t be proven innocent.
But EGW is innocent even when proven guilty.
In Phil’s world, statements made by family lawyers are standards of proof now, are they?
I guess that makes Ravi innocent and Phil a repeated liar then, as judged by his own standards.
——>Also, do the 144,000 include those people EGW met in the other worlds?
“Why? They’re in OTHER worlds, and they’re already SINLESS.”
Oh! You’re really sincere, aren’t you?
Hypothetically, should one of them sin, would Jesus’ blood cover them also?
Amen, brother! Ayyymen.
Rev_5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
That sounds a bit more than 144,000 SDAs to me. You?
Rev_7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Did you catch it? “... of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
“[W]hich no man could number,” but I guess a woman could, right?
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