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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
I thought that the two of you would find this beneficial
a. Promises Conditions
(1) John 6:37 Come to Christ
(2) John 10:14-15, 27-28 Know Christ
(3) John 15:1-8 Abide in Christ
(4) John 3:16-21 Believe, come to the light, live the truth
(5) 1 John 1:9 Confess our sins
(6) 1 John 5:10-13 Believe, be “in Christ”
(7) 2 Pet 1:5-11 Sanctification as evidence of salvation
(8) Heb 10:14 “Perfected forever” on condition that we continue in the
relationship with Christ through which we are “being
sanctified”
b. Warnings about possibility of falling.
(1) Ezekiel 18: 21-24 A righteous person who turns away from righteousness will
be punished with the wicked
(2) Matt 18:21-35 Forgiveness can be forfeited
(3) 1 Cor 9:27 Even a minister can fall away and be lost
(4) 1 Cor 10: 1-5, 12 Israelites, though “baptized,” fell away. “Therefore let him
who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.”
(5) Gal 3:1-3; 5:4 “You have fallen from grace.”
(6) Heb 3:12-14 Beware of apostasy through unbelief
(7) Heb 6:4-8 Apostasy crucifies Christ again
(8) Heb 10:26-29, 36-38 Continuing in known sin tramples the Son of God
underfoot; profanes the blood of the
covenant, and insults the Spirit of
grace
(9) 2 Peter 2:20-22 Better not to have known the way of righteousness, than
having known it, to turn from it
(10) Jude 5 Once “saved,” but later “destroyed”
(11) Rev 2:4-5, 25; 3:2-3, Churches threatened with “removal” if they don’t repent
11, 15-16 and change; those who endure to the end will be saved
c. Present assurance, based on the Word and the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.
(1) Rom 8:1, 14-17
(2) Gal 4:6-7
(3) Acts 5:32
(4) 1 John 3:18-22
(5) Luke 23:43
I sure don't know any saved believer that believes that phil.
Very creative straw man!
——>I sure don’t know any saved believer that believes that phil.
Do you know anyone that believes in OSAS? There ya go.
You keep using many words, but so far it doesn’t appear you know their meaning - nor the saving grace of God.
Very sad existence.
——>We’ve only been trying to tell you for literally weeks that we can’t know if *someone else* is saved because only God knows the hearts of all mankind.
How do I know if Ravi, Billy Graham, ANDY WOODS, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, or anyone, initially accepted Christ and was saved by grace, AT THAT MOMENT? By their admission and public confession of their faith. Same as the Corinthians that Paul was speaking to in 1 Corinthians 6:11.
“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Every one of those Corinthians professed faith. They were baptized, performed communion, openly professed their love for Christ (I’m assuming...I don’t know if that’s recorded or not). They did everything to show that they had accepted Christ by faith. They were saved by grace, at that moment. Did Paul ask God to give him the 411 on each individual Corinthian proclaiming the gift of Salvation, “because only God knows the hearts of all mankind”, to make sure they were genuine? Nope. They openly professed it.
OSAS says that the second a person accepts Christ by faith (believes), they are locked in (saved) forever, and NOTHING will ever change that. How many years did Ravi publicly profess to be saved by Grace? Yes, at the moment of his conversion, early in his life, Ravi was saved by Grace. Boatbums, Metmom, and MHGinTN say he was at that time a made man. HE COULDN’T BE TOUCHED. Any sin he committed after that moment would in no way affect his salvation. The bible very clearly says otherwise. It seems that Ravi didn’t love God enough to keep his commandments. Ravi chose poorly.
And, you need to get with your OSAS people and get your stories straight. They say Ravi was OSAS. THEY KNOW HE’S SAVED and will be in heaven. Paul didn’t seem to have any difficulty knowing that those Corinthians were saved by Grace.
The local cultist doesn’t seem to understand that boasting about how perfect he is even turns off the Catholics.
—> How do I know if…
Better question:
Why would an unsaved guy in a cornbroom false religion , know anything about the spiritual condition of the saved??
He simply couldn’t
As to Chuck MIssler, I have absorbed many hours of his teaching. There is little you can accuse that will nullify the spirit filled teaching he has done. You are a Catholic, a Roman Catholic through and through. Memorize these words: "I never knew you". He will reply to your pleading your works with that sentence because you are on the path of prideful assertion, not humble belief. And with that I am through with you. May God have mercy on you in your arrogant unbelief.
What is the doctrine of Balaam?
https://www.gotquestions.org/doctrine-of-Balaam.html
According to 2 Peter 2:15, Balaam’s “way” is a choice to promote falsehood for financial reasons. According to Jude 1:11, Balaam’s “error” was his willingness to accommodate pagan beliefs out of greed. Jude 1:4 also refers to the sin of those “who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality.” One trait of false teachers in the church is that they attempt to turn Christian liberty into a “freedom” to be promiscuous (see Romans 14:1–5).
Putting these ideas together gives a clear view of the doctrine of Balaam. It is the attitude that one can be fully cooperative with the world and still serve God. The doctrine of Balaam teaches compromise, wanting Christians to forget they are called to be separate and holy (Leviticus 20:26; 1 Peter 1:2); the doctrine of Balaam makes believers indistinguishable from the unbelieving world (Matthew 5:13). The doctrine of Balaam is a belief that “a little sin” doesn’t hurt (Galatians 5:9), especially if there’s some financial or personal benefit involved (1 Timothy 6:5). A person following the doctrine of Balaam is willing to compromise his beliefs for the sake of economics. He acts to enable sinful behaviors for personal gain or even participate in them (Romans 1:32).
In practical terms, the teaching or doctrine of Balaam is the view that Christians can—or even should—compromise their convictions for the sake of popularity, money, sexual gratification, or personal gain. It’s the attitude that treats sin as “no big deal.” Christians can’t—and shouldn’t—totally shun the presence of sinners or unbelievers (Luke 7:34; 1 Corinthians 5:9–13), but we are obligated to stand up for truth (Ephesians 4:25), righteousness (Proverbs 23:20; Romans 14:22), and goodness (2 Peter 1:5, Matthew 5:16), whether it’s what others want to hear or not (John 4:16–18; 8:11; Acts 24:24–25).
OSAS = Dead Man Walking
Why do OSAS Nicolaitans, believe in the Doctrine of Balaam?
Nothing, which is why sharp rebuke, then mockery, and then ignoring their attempts to provoke us into giving them dopamine hits is a smart idea.
Can you show me from the bible where God condones large scale rape, adultery, and otherwise, the abusing of women, after OSAS? Go...
Right on bro.
He’s heard the gospel of grace and prefers the cornbroom theology.
His call
BORN AGAIN PASTOR-EVANGELIST RAVI ZACHARIAS....
He claimed to be Born again up until the day he died.
OSAS?
I’m more than happy to claim EGW for the SDA church. You own Ravi, poster boy for OSAS. Try as you have all done to distance yourselves from him, you own it. Yeah, everyone seems to be jumping the Ravi sinking ship these days, even John MacArthur. Maybe if Ravi had started out making corn brooms things may have turned out different? Who’s to say. LOL.
OK Broomer…
Why is everyone jumping off the good ship Lolly Ravi?
I note your implied inane accusations against me and my friends again. I sense another Philtdown incoming.
But I’m still amused at all your pathetic boasting about how perfectly you supposedly keep the Law. And you called me a Pharisee, bahahaha.
YOU had better "memorize" what follows, as to the reason WHY Christ will say those words...
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’
LAWLESSNESS
But that doesn't apply to OSAS, does it? Hmmmm?
We've come full circle!!
——>But I’m still amused at all your pathetic boasting about how perfectly you supposedly keep the Law.
Please point out the posts where I state that.
Would it be located in the same imaginary post that you claimed that I “outright confessed that I ignore Scripture that I don’t like...”
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