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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
They are if you continue in the faith.
In Falseworld, the meaning of Scripture is only determined by what the cult teaches.
In Biblical world, you are correct.
Yum yum, more SDA hypocrisy!
There you go again, adding to the Word of God.
Tsk tsk tsk.
Glutton for punishment?
Oh. I suppose God just forgot to put that part in scripture. Lucky He has you to correct His errors.
I was wondering of Aaron has a regular schedule of keeping p his proficiency rating with his own hands guiding the aircraft, keeping his pay rate up to date. Is he getting a multi-engine rating? adding more aircraft to his list of aircraft on which he has been checked out?
And yet, neither of you ever address the Scripture used to refute your interpretations. Whereas we, on the other hand, have addressed what you’ve quoted many times over.
That would lose you a lot of points in even a middle school debate class.
I’m still waiting for MY answers.
The work of the Holy Spirit with men changed on the Day of Pentecost. Prior to that Day the Holy Spirit did not abide IN the spirit of men. With the death of Jesus and His shed blood, the spirits of men and women can be cleansed so the Holy Spirit does abide in the spirit of the born again. When Peter recited what God put on his lips, Peter was not yet born again. Catholic mythology gets so many things wrong because it seeks to support other myths issued in ‘the traditions of men’.
Over 3 hours of bible texts, reasoning, and discussion here. And I agree with every bit of it. There has to be SOMETHING here that you can pick apart? I believe that every false doctrine argument I’ve ever heard from your side on OSAS is addressed in this video, and it’s all completely refuted.
I told you in Post #1308 that I was not going to wrangle with you over Bible passages that you do not understand, about which you cling to an opinion, and have a closed impenetrable mind.
Maybe you can engage someone else less discerning.
That’s a great story! I am glad that you have a son that is well educated, has a good attitude, and is determined to take care of himself and contribute in such a way never to be ashamed of his existence. I hope also that he can find a way to share his life experiences with his Dad. May he also learn to find the Lord and desire to serve Him!
I think you are right BB. By the way so glad to see you back on. So sorry for your loss.
I think there is a whole lot of Pearl casting here. Maybe we do it in case lurkers are near. I think there comes a time, when we tell them, fish or cut bait. I am of the opinion, that the more the cult members reject the truth, their hearts become seared and hardened. Finally, God gives them over to a reprobate mind (Romans1) Are they still able to repent and believe after that? I don’t know, but they are betting their eternity on their own doctrine, that we keep telling them is out in left field.
Remember, the men of Nineveh and the Queen of Sheba will rise in judgment (not some investigative judgment) over this generation, and condemn it. The men of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah and the Queen of Sheba, came from the uttermost part of the world to hear the wisdom of Solomon. I have this sneaking suspicion, we will be there too, as a witness against every person we ever witnessed to. God will never charge us with their doom. That, my FRiend, is on them.
Meanwhile, PREACH IT SISTER. 😀😊🤗👍
By the way bro, what are you doing up at 3 AM? It’s 3 PM here. 👍
I have heard that too. If that is true, and I think it is likely, maybe that is exactly how the Holy Spirit will operate during the tribulation period.
We are on “daylight saving time” now, for a couple of weeks. To get there, we had to move the clocks ahead an hour, so that make us twelve instead of eleven hours behind you. We moved up an hor in the day behind you, so you are now only thwerlve hours ahead of us according to where the sun would be in our sky where it is in your sky. I slept a lot on Saturday, so I was all slept out and could not do that anymore for a while. I am single, report to no employer, and so there is no structure to my hours. That’s it. the only difference is where the sun is according to where Iam and you are. discount that, and then you and I are living and chatting in exactly the same moment. The only difference is that this globe is hiding the sun from me that is shining on you, that’s all.
Yes, when we go away in the clouds with out Master, the Spirit also withdraws and goes with us, so on earth there will be no restrictions for Satan to be restrained after we go. The humans left will be exposed to the meanness of him and his fallen angels as never before. don’t you think?
Yes that’s exactly what I think. I think, however that people will still be saved during the tribulation, and since no one can be saved, unless the Spirit draws him, I am thinking the Holy Spirit must be here in some capacity, maybe like He was, in the Old Testament. See you in the OSAS, sola scriptura, pre trib rapture. Did I miss anything? 😀😂🙃🤗
By the way, maybe in the tribulation, many of these Catholics will realize what we have been saying all along, was true, and repent and believe. If they do, better late than never, but they will probably lose their heads over it. Better to be beheaded an lose their heads than lose their souls.
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