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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
I wonder, is the cultist revealing he doesn’t want the New Covenant and wants to be judged under the Old Covenant? Grace is just not enough for the ego of cultists, in all sorts of cults.
Is the lawbreaker revealing that he doesn’t believe that continued, willful sin, AFTER grace, will affect his salvation, even when Hebrews 10:26-29 clearly says it will? (you stated answer has always been yes)
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
YOU WILL NOT BE COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF THE NEW COVENANT.
Hint for you, cultist ... the following is you cultic way of lying by adding just a wee lie to your assertion: “ that sin will not affect your salvation in any way.”
You remain clueless so I shall no longer bother reading your demonically inspired falsehoods. Have nice day, cultist. LOL
Why won’t you answer post 1379?
—> Grace covers PAST SINS
Very, very sorry to hear the SDA Jesus wasn’t able to cover all your sins!
The best the weak SDA Jesus could do was hold the door open for you and wish you good luck.
Well, it’s what you chose for whatever reason.
I chose the eternal God the Son, who laid down Bis life for all my sins and my very sin nature - then sealed me with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee He is redeeming me.
Very, very sorry to hear the SDA Jesus wasn’t able to cover all your sins!
And I am very, very sorry for you that Satan has fooled you into believing his lies. You have been deceived. You will be judged, just like every other human on this earth...confessed Christian or not.
So we can record…
False World Cultic Principle #6:
The cultic SDA Jesus is weak and can’t fully redeem, nor preserve.
Like the other cultic Jesus’, they are less than almighty God.
Only in your sinful mind.
For some reason, He's had to conduct an "investigative judgement since 1844" to figure things out - and He hasn't managed to do it yet!
The Biblical God the Father is omniscient and already knows everything. Even knows who are His, as the Biblical Jesus stated in John.
Which leads to...
False World Cultic Principle #7
The cultic SDA God is less than God, not having the attributes of God.
Good call bro. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. It becomes casting pearls before swine. 😀😆🤗 See you in the OSAS clouds bro.
Maybe you just don’t understand it? Can’t comprehend?
I’m very sorry the SDA God the Father doesn’t have all the attributes of God, but you chose that religion.
I chose the Triune God that has always existed eternally and has all the attributes of God, including omniscience.
Right on Mark.
See you and MhginTN in the OSAS clouds! Don’t forget to grab ebb by the scruff of the neck if he’s near you.
God tells us in Scripture that ALL our sins are covered.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross…
God doesn’t just forgive the sins we committed before our salvation experience and then hold us accountable for any that we commit afterwards.
The entire record of our sin debt was expunged. It was ALL nailed to the cross, having completely been paid for by the blood of Jesus.
Very sadly, the weak SDA Jesus wasn’t able to forgive all sin,
like the real Christ of Scripture.
What happens if you sin and don’t realize it?
What happens if you sin and forget you have?
What happens if you sin and die before you get the chance to repent?
Like every other works based cult.
And the answer always includes, first and foremost, “works”; specific enough to that cult that they can only be properly performed within the framework of that cult.
Therefore, membership in and loyalty to the cult always takes precedence, which os why cultists try to convert you to their religion, not Christ.
Many cult members take this to mean, that if they get saved, then they can sin to their heart’s content. NO NO NO NO NO. Maybe that is what they want to do, but NO, that is not what it means.
I think you are spot on metmon.
They get quite animated about it when you point out these things too.
I wonder, should we explain the consequences of sin in the life of a born again member of the Body of Christ Believers? The SDA cultist keeps floundering around, flipping and flopping angrily about his disbelief in OSAS. Of course the cultist will not comprehend the explanation, but should we try, for those who might be clicking on this thread out of curiosity?
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