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[Catholic Caucus] The ‘buck’ starts here
Fr. Z's Blog ^ | January 27, 2022 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 01/27/2022 6:30:53 PM PST by ebb tide

[Catholic Caucus] The ‘buck’ starts here

Consider a few points, in no particular order.

At Catholic World Report there is a piece by Fr. Peter Stravinskas which helps to identity the status quaestionis regarding the long-term viability of Traditionis custodes, Francis’ “Plessy v. Ferguson” legacy document.

Stravinskas makes a point that we all know only too well.   It bears repeating, however, especially in this present context of the pogrom against the Catholic faithful who desire traditional doctrine and worship (liturgy is doctrine).   The point is: While conservatives tend to obey, and then get the stuffing kicked out of them, liberals disobey and defy and wind up getting their way, being rewarded for their bad behavior.

Let’s pick up in the CWR piece…

[…]

[A]n Irish witticism: “The willing horse gets flogged the most.”

Where am I going with all this?

Yes, the prelates in question have made a presumption, based on the theological convictions of their intended audience. That is, that “conservatives” obey. However, “conservatives” are not ahistorical; they have witnessed for more than half a century that “liberals” have never obeyed any liturgical authority, and have done so with impunity. Actually, more to the point, “liberal” disobedience and disregard for liturgical norms most often resulted, not only in no punishment, but in having their disobedience enshrined in law!

Let but a few examples suffice.

[…]

He goes on to list several practices that were obtained through flagrant disobedience, such as Communion in the hand, multiplication of “extraordinary” ministers, female service at the altar, etc.

Now, Francis and Roche and Cupich, etc., are flogging the willing horse.

I would observe that the ‘buck’ starts here.

I do not think that they are going to win, in the end.  There are too many people who want traditional worship and too many young priests and seminarians who want it as well.

This time, I think the proper distinctions will lead more and more people to conclude that the suppression of tradition is quite simply appalling and harmful for the Church.   Reasonable people who don’t even care to attend the TLM can see how dreadful this is, how ideologically twisted.

 



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: antipope; apostatepope; frankenchurch; mercilesspope

1 posted on 01/27/2022 6:30:53 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Al Hitan; DuncanWaring; Fedora; irishjuggler; Jaded; JoeFromSidney; kalee; markomalley; ...

Ping


2 posted on 01/27/2022 6:32:50 PM PST by ebb tide (Where are the good fruits of the Second Vatican Council? Anyone?)
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To: ebb tide

I’ve never gone to a TLM.

We’re moving to Sarasota. We’ll probably register, at least initially, in our territorial NO parish. But my wife has scoped out a nearby FSSP parish. We will have a chat with the pastor about how best we might affiliate with that parish.

My son & his wife often go to a nearby TLM. But he has an excuse. He’s fluent in Latin. ;-)

Their first daughter was baptized in the Old Rite. Daughter #2 is due in May. I hope they can do similarly.


3 posted on 01/27/2022 6:54:07 PM PST by sitetest (Professional patient. No longer mostly dead. Again. It's getting to be a habit.)
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To: sitetest
We will have a chat with the pastor about how best we might affiliate with that parish.

Just tell him you want to join the parish; after a period of time (6-12 months, I think), they'll put you on their books as a recognized parishioner.

4 posted on 01/27/2022 7:21:55 PM PST by Captain Walker ("If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of."- J Peterson)
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To: Captain Walker

If I say, “I want to join the parish,” why won’t he just give me a registration form?


5 posted on 01/27/2022 7:29:34 PM PST by sitetest (Professional patient. No longer mostly dead. Again. It's getting to be a habit.)
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To: sitetest

Try to order “Treasure And Tradition: The Ultimate Guide To The Latin Mass, By Lisa Bergman”

Probably the best book for beginners to the Traditional Mass.


6 posted on 01/27/2022 7:30:08 PM PST by rmichaelj (Ave Maria gratia plena, Dominus tecum.)
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To: rmichaelj

Thanks. I look into it.


7 posted on 01/27/2022 7:30:51 PM PST by sitetest (Professional patient. No longer mostly dead. Again. It's getting to be a habit.)
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To: sitetest

Do you and your wife have Latin-English Mass missals?

They’ll be a great help.


8 posted on 01/27/2022 7:32:27 PM PST by ebb tide (Where are the good fruits of the Second Vatican Council? Anyone?)
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To: sitetest
If I say, “I want to join the parish,” why won’t he just give me a registration form?

I don't see why not. We've moved several times, and had no problem with FSSP or ICR.
9 posted on 01/27/2022 7:34:37 PM PST by Dr. Sivana ( “to defend themselves, they are using the same weapons with which they were struck.”Pope St. Pius X)
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To: sitetest
If I say, “I want to join the parish,” why won’t he just give me a registration form?

He probably will.

I think the issue is if you were to need, say, a letter from the pastor stating that you were an active member of his parish (if you were asked to be a godfather for a newborn, for example), then I think the priest would have to be able to have something tangible on which he could say that you were, in fact, an active member of the parish.

(I think there are guidelines regarding this; I don't think he could write such a letter if you showed up the week before.)

10 posted on 01/27/2022 7:38:52 PM PST by Captain Walker ("If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of."- J Peterson)
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To: ebb tide

No, we don’t. At least, I don’t think so. But I’m not the keeper of the books. As well, my son likely has a spare or two lying around.


11 posted on 01/27/2022 7:44:05 PM PST by sitetest (Professional patient. No longer mostly dead. Again. It's getting to be a habit.)
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To: sitetest
If I say, “I want to join the parish,” why won’t he just give me a registration form?

Not to speak for Walker- but some bishops are more FSSP friendly than others and may request/require that the FSSP parish only register those families that "have a strong historical attachment to Tradition" (whatever that means).

12 posted on 01/27/2022 7:48:20 PM PST by rmichaelj (Ave Maria gratia plena, Dominus tecum.)
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To: rmichaelj

Could be.

The bishop of this diocese, up till now, has permitted the local FSSP parish to have regularly scheduled TLMs in about half a dozen other parishes throughout the diocese. My understanding is that he hasn’t, so far, acted with haste with regard to TC.


13 posted on 01/27/2022 7:53:23 PM PST by sitetest (Professional patient. No longer mostly dead. Again. It's getting to be a habit.)
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To: sitetest
If I say, “I want to join the parish,” why won’t he just give me a registration form?

Here's some more information as a follow-up:

In the Roman Catholic Church of the United States of America, members to be considered "active" parishioners must be registered int the Parish for a sufficient period of time, fulfilled the Sabbath Commandment by attending Mass faithfully on Sundays and Holy Days, and continuously support the Mission of Christ in the local Parish by preferably using the envelope system. (Emphasis mine.)

www.stjosephwen.org

(I'm sure they could put you on the books right away but they wouldn't consider you active just because you're on the books.)

Anyway, check out the church and ask for a registration form.

14 posted on 01/27/2022 7:54:02 PM PST by Captain Walker ("If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of."- J Peterson)
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To: Captain Walker
I think they're making stuff up as they go. Here's an article which is pretty complete and readable. "Parish registration" as a concept doesn't even exist in canon law.

In contrast to the situation described in the article, when I went to my diocesan office, gave them my address, and asked which parish I was in, the lady behind the desk looked at me in complete confusion and said, "Well, where do you go to church?" !!!!

I am a bad boy and do not go to my territorial parish. Cocktail-bar piano music doesn't help me pray, sorry.

15 posted on 01/29/2022 10:05:20 AM PST by Campion (NO Wag-the-Dog WARS for Big Guy Brandon's 10%)
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To: Campion
"Parish registration" as a concept doesn't even exist in canon law.

Then what is Canon 518 about?


I am a bad boy and do not go to my territorial parish.

You are not obliged to attend your "territorial" parish.

The problems arise when you need confirmation that you are an active parishioner; the pastor of your "territorial" parish won't be able to vouch for you, because there is a good chance he's never met you.

This might put your mind at ease:

"Canon 518 also asserts that a diocesan bishop can erect personal parishes, by reason of "rite, language, or nationality … or even for some other reason."

canonlawmadeasy.com

16 posted on 01/29/2022 10:41:25 AM PST by Captain Walker ("If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of."- J Peterson)
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To: Captain Walker

518 doesn’t mention any registration process, waiting time or anything like that.


17 posted on 01/29/2022 11:05:03 AM PST by Campion (NO Wag-the-Dog WARS for Big Guy Brandon's 10%)
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To: Campion
Gotcha.

I imagine it was written at a time when one parish church was as orthodox and reliable as the next; there would have been no real reason to leave one's "territory" for a saner parish.

18 posted on 01/29/2022 11:32:39 AM PST by Captain Walker ("If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of."- J Peterson)
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