Posted on 10/30/2021 2:33:11 AM PDT by Cronos
The teachings of the Lord on Hell are difficult, especially in today’s climate. I recently gave some talks at a Renewal Ministries conference in Ann Arbor Michigan and promised the participants I would repost this for their reference. When the videos of the conference come available, I will link to them.
The most difficult questions on Hell that arise relate to its eternal nature and how to square its existence with a God who is loving and rich in mercy.
1. Does God love the souls in Hell? Yes.
How could they continue to exist if He did not love them, sustain them, and continue to provide for them? God loves because He is love. Although we may fail to be able to experience or accept His love, God loves every being He has made, human or angelic.
The souls in Hell may have refused to empty their arms to receive His embrace, but God has not withdrawn His love for them. He permits those who have rejected Him to live apart from him. God honors their freedom to say no, even respecting it when it becomes permanent, as it has for fallen angels and the souls in Hell.
God is not tormenting the damned. The fire and other miseries are largely expressions of the sad condition of those who have rejected the one thing for which they were made: to be caught up into the love and perfection of God and the joy of all the saints.
2. Is there any good at all in Hell? Yes. Are all the damned punished equally? No.
While Heaven is perfection and pure goodness, Hell is not pure evil. The reason for this is that evil is the privation or absence of something good that should be there. If goodness were completely absent, there would be nothing there. Therefore, there must be some goodness in Hell or there would be nothing at all. St. Thomas Aquinas teaches,
It is impossible for evil to be pure and without the admixture of good …. [So]those who will be thrust into hell will not be free from all good … those who are in hell can receive the reward of their goods, in so far as their past goods avail for the mitigation of their punishment (Summa Theologica, Supplement 69.7, reply ad 9).
This can assist us in understanding that God’s punishments are just and that the damned are neither devoid of all good nor lacking in any experience of good. Even though a soul does not wish to dwell in God’s Kingdom (evidenced by rejection of God or the values of His Kingdom), the nature of suffering in Hell is commensurate with the sin(s) that caused exclusion from Heaven.
This would seem to be true even of demons. In the Rite of Exorcism, the exorcist warns the possessing demons, “The longer you delay your departure, the worse your punishment shall be.” This suggest levels of punishment in Hell based on the degree of unrepented wickedness.
In his Inferno, Dante described levels within Hell and wrote that not all the damned experience identical sufferings. Thus, an unrepentant adulterer might not experience the same suffering in kind or degree as would a genocidal, atheistic head of state responsible for the death of millions. Both have rejected key values of the Kingdom: one rejected chastity, the other rejected the worship due to God and the sacredness of human life. The magnitude of those sins is very different and so would be the consequences.
Heaven is a place of absolute perfection, a work accomplished by God for those who say yes. Hell, though a place of great evil, is not one of absolute evil. It cannot be, because God continues to sustain human and angelic beings in existence there and existence itself is good. God also judges them according to their deeds (Rom 2:6). Their good deeds may ameliorate their sufferings. This, too, is good and allows for good in varying degrees there. Hell is not in any way pleasant, but it is not equally bad for all. Thus God’s justice, which is good, reaches even Hell.
3. Do the souls in Hell repent of what they have done? No, not directly.
After death, repentance in the formal sense is not possible. However, St. Thomas makes an important distinction. He says,
A person may repent of sin in two ways: in one way directly, in another way indirectly. He repents of a sin directly who hates sin as such: and he repents indirectly who hates it on account of something connected with it, for instance punishment or something of that kind. Accordingly, the wicked will not repent of their sins directly, because consent in the malice of sin will remain in them; but they will repent indirectly, inasmuch as they will suffer from the punishment inflicted on them for sin (Summa Theologica, Supplement, q 98, art 2).
This explains the “wailing and grinding of teeth” in so far as it points to the lament of the damned. They do not lament their choice to sin without repenting, but for the consequences. In the Parable of Lazarus, the rich man in Hell laments his suffering but expresses no regret over the way he treated the beggar Lazarus. Indeed, he still sees Lazarus as a kind of errand-boy, who should fetch him water and warn his brothers. In a certain sense the rich man cannot repent; his character is now quickened and his choices forever fixed.
4. Is eternal punishment just? Yes.
Many who might otherwise accept God’s punishment of sinners are still dismayed that Hell is eternal. Why should one be punished eternally for sins committed over a brief time span, perhaps in just a moment? The punishment does not seem to fit the crime.
This logic presumes that the eternal nature of Hell is intrinsic to the punishment, but it is not. Rather, Hell is eternal because repentance is no longer available after death. Our decision for or against God and the values of His Kingdom values becomes forever fixed. Because at this point the will is fixed and obstinate, the repentance that unlocks mercy will never be forthcoming.
St. Thomas teaches,
[A]s Damascene says (De Fide Orth. ii) “death is to men what their fall was to the angels.” Now after their fall the angels could not be restored [Cf. I:64:2]. Therefore, neither can man after death: and thus the punishment of the damned will have no end. … [So] just as the demons are obstinate in wickedness and therefore have to be punished for ever, so too are the souls of men who die without charity, since “death is to men what their fall was to the angels,” as Damascene says (Summa Theologica, Supplement, q 99, art 3).
5. Do the souls in Hell hate God? No, not directly.
St. Thomas teaches,
The appetite is moved by good or evil apprehended. Now God is apprehended in two ways, namely in Himself, as by the blessed, who see Him in His essence; and in His effects, as by us and by the damned. Since, then, He is goodness by His essence, He cannot in Himself be displeasing to any will; wherefore whoever sees Him in His essence cannot hate Him.
On the other hand, some of His effects are displeasing to the will in so far as they are opposed to any one: and accordingly a person may hate God not in Himself, but by reason of His effects. Therefore, the damned, perceiving God in His punishment, which is the effect of His justice, hate Him, even as they hate the punishment inflicted on them (Summa Theologica, Supplement, q 98, art 5).
6. Do the souls in hell wish they were dead? No.
It is impossible to detest what is fundamentally good, and to exist is fundamentally good. Those who say that they “wish they were dead” do not really wish nonexistence upon themselves. Rather, they wish an end to their suffering. So it is with the souls in Hell. St. Thomas teaches,
Not to be may be considered in two ways. First, in itself, and thus it can nowise be desirable, since it has no aspect of good, but is pure privation of good. Secondly, it may be considered as a relief from a painful life or from some unhappiness: and thus “not to be” takes on the aspect of good, since “to lack an evil is a kind of good” as the Philosopher says (Ethic. v, 1). In this way it is better for the damned not to be than to be unhappy. Hence it is said (Matthew 26:24): “It were better for him, if that man had not been born,” and (Jeremiah 20:14): “Cursed be the day wherein I was born,” where a gloss of Jerome observes: “It is better not to be than to be evilly.” In this sense the damned can prefer “not to be” according to their deliberate reason (Summa Theologica, Supplement, q 98, art 3).
7. Do the souls in Hell see the blessed in Heaven?
Some biblical texts say that the damned see the saints in glory. For example, the rich man in the parable can see Lazarus in the Bosom of Abraham (Lk 16:3). Further, Jesus says, There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out (Lk 13:28). However, St Thomas makes a distinction:
The damned, before the judgment day, will see the blessed in glory, in such a way as to know, not what that glory is like, but only that they are in a state of glory that surpasses all thought. This will trouble them, both because they will, through envy, grieve for their happiness, and because they have forfeited that glory. Hence it is written (Wisdom 5:2) concerning the wicked: “Seeing it” they “shall be troubled with terrible fear.”
After the judgment day, however, they will be altogether deprived of seeing the blessed: nor will this lessen their punishment, but will increase it; because they will bear in remembrance the glory of the blessed which they saw at or before the judgment: and this will torment them. Moreover, they will be tormented by finding themselves deemed unworthy even to see the glory which the saints merit to have (Summa Theologica, Supplement, q 98, art 9).
St Thomas does not cite a Scripture for this conclusion. However, certain texts about the Last Judgment emphasize a kind of definitive separation. For example, in Matthew 25 we read this: All the nations will be gathered before [the Son of Man], and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. … Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life (Mat 25:32, 46).
Clearly, Hell is a tragic and eternal separation from God. Repentance, which unlocks mercy, is available to us; but after death, like clay pottery placed in the kiln, our decision is forever fixed.
Choose the Lord today! Judgment day looms. Now is the time to admit our sins humbly and to seek the Lord’s mercy. There is simply nothing more foolish than defiance and an obstinate refusal to repent. At some point, our hardened hearts will reach a state in which there is no turning back. To die in such a condition is to close the door of our heart on God forever.
Somebody’s knocking at your door.
Oh sinner, why don’t you answer?
Somebody’s knocking at your door!
Seven Teachings on Hell From St. Thomas Aquinas
Please FReepmail me to get on/off the Msgr Charles Pope Ping List.
>>>Is eternal punishment just? Yes.<<<
From: So High The Price...
THE OPTIMISTS
The optimists object: “Can it be possible that God punishes a momentary sinful pleasure with an eternity of pain?”
It is not only possible, but it is right and just. The offense given by the sinner to God when he transgresses His holy laws involves infinite malice, since it is an offense to infinite Majesty. Therefore, it deserves an infinite punishment. But since man, being finite, is incapable of undergoing punishment that is infinite in intensity, God punishes him with a chastisement infinite in duration. In acting thus, God acts justly.
Consider my son, that if you go to hell, you will never leave it. There, every pain is suffered and suffered forever.
Even when a hundred years have gone by since you went to hell, or a thousand, hell will be just beginning. After a hundred thousand, a hundred million years, after millions of centuries, hell will still be just beginning.
If an angel were to bring news to the damned that God had decided to free them from hell when as many million centuries had passed as there are drops of water in the ocean, leaves on the trees and grains of sand on the earth - if the damned were to hear that, they would be immensely consoled. “True”, they would say, “many centuries must yet pass, but some day the time of our freedom will come.” In reality, however, such vast stretches of time and more than we can possibly imagine, shall pass and find hell still only beginning.
Every soul damned in hell would be willing to make this agreement with God: “Lord, increase my suffering as much as You will; make me stay here in this place of torment as long as You will, but give me hope that someday You will free me.”
But no, this hope, this end to suffering, shall never be.
At least if the poor soul of the damned could deceive himself and cheer himself up by thinking, “Who knows? Perhaps some day God will have pity on me and lift me out of this burning inferno.”
No, not even that way is open to him, for he will forever see written before him the sentence of his wretched eternity.
“So”, he will say, “all this terrible pain, this fire, will never end for me?”
“No,” will come the answer. “No, never.”
“Will they last forever?”
“Forever - for all eternity.”
Oh, eternity! O bottomless pit! O sea without a shore! O endless tunnel! Who does not tremble at the thought of you!
Accursed sin! What tremendous agony you prepare for those who commit you!
hell is merely holding onto low frequency consciousness like fear, anger, or guilt while trying to exist in Divine High Frequency consciousness. Sin is low frequency consciousness that creates an obstacle to Love in a person’s soul. Love is critically important as it is the glue that holds the soul together and stabilizes it so it can grow closer to God.
It’s like placing a dense object in the high frequency of a microwave. It heats up and/or catches on fire. So it is when sin tries to exist in the purity of God. This creates the perception of hell.
As Jesus foretold, Heaven is coming to earth. Those who hold onto sin are afraid of this and are creating the current turmoil on earth. They don’t want to perish in the fire. It’s all real.
It’s a very simple concept to understand.
How can anyone not see that the weeds Jesus spoke of in Matthew 13 are now active here on earth.
Do not focus on fighting the weeds as they will pull you down and further from God.
Instead, focus on the concept of Communion with Jesus and drawing closer to God..
Hell is a real place. Hell is mentioned in the Bible more than Heaven is. Over half of those instances were spoken by Jesus Himself.
“2. Is there any good at all in Hell? Yes. Are all the damned punished equally? No.”
There are many rooms in my Father’s Mansion. There are many levels in hell just as their are many levels in Heaven. The Fire of God is a “Refining Fire.”
The majority of the dark spirits I encounter are not the pure evil of a demonic spirit. They are just souls who died in their physical bodies and held onto earthly attachments, including fear, greed or anger.
Earlier this week I encountered such a spirit. It was a young man who was killed in an auto accident when his car was crushed by a tractor trailer in a collision. The accident happened a few years ago.
He moved into another man who was now experiencing excruciating pain as the memory of the young man’s painful experience in the accident causing his death was now manifesting in the host. When I pulled out the misguided spirit, the host instantly was relieved of the excruciating pain. This is far more common than most realize.
The Bible is accurate.
hell exists wherever a soul encounters the Refining Fire of God. Yes it is real. It is a perception experienced by the impure during the Refining process.
For example, an evil spirit experiences hell if they encounter the Holy Spirit. Evil spirits scream and howl when they encounter the Love and Light of God. This is how Jesus drove out the evil spirits with His Father’s Light flowing through Him.
What evidence do we have that, after death, the "will is fixed and obstinate?"
Is the damned soul truly unable to review, in memory, his life, and the various deeds and misdeeds he committed during it?! Is he unable to reconsider the sins he has committed?! Is he unable to come to the realization that what he did was morally wrong - not wrong merely because of the later punishment it entailed, but intrinsically wrong?! Is he, for some reason, unable to grow spiritually after death?!
I suppose that my question basically boils down to: What, other than the cessation of organic metabolism, distinguishes life from death? How is it that the human soul can grow and mature during life, can become more refined (or, conversely, more corrupt) during life - but is incapable of growth, development, and (perhaps) improvement after death?!
Is it merely because God has so ordained it? In the sense of, "Sorry, the race is over! No make-overs! Rules are rules, after all! It doesn't matter that you have come to the true and sincere realization that you ran the race poorly (or even cheated during it)?
Or can we logically deduce that, once a physical body's metabolic processes have ceased, the immaterial soul associated with it somehow changes in its nature?
Finally: Would God be unable, in His infinite mercy, to redeem a soul in Hell?
Regards,
Fascinating!
Was the young man a "damned soul?" Was the other man now experiencing the excruciating pain "possessed" by an "unclean spirit."
You must realize that most of the FReepers reading your posting will have great difficulty understanding it, insofar as it is not in line with the doctrines of any of the major Christian confessions, so I think that a little more information would be in order.
E.g.:
1. What ritual or ceremony did you employ to "cast out" the spirit?
2. How do you initially come into contact with such people needing your services? Do you advertise, or what? Or are you the leader of a sect (don't mean that in the pejorative sense)?
3. Do you charge a fee or accept a "donation" for your services?
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
First, it is not me doing the work. It is done through me. The Love I experience during this process is so great, it is the total reward for participating.
I never charge. Never would as that would create conditional love. God’s Love is unconditional.
I rely totally on God to guide these people to me. Pure coincidence. I do not promote, advertise or even desire to do this work for myself. I live to serve God.
Many times when I meet a total stranger I know their situation. Often my first words are to tell them of a prayer they said recently while experiencing great despair, and to explain that their prayers were heard.
We are in the times described in the Bible.
While I do sometimes accept donations to cover travel expenses. (I travel the world quite a bit) I never ask for donations. When a person asks how much, I explain that the expected donation is Zero.
I further explain that all gratitude is to be directed toward God in Prayer and not me.
Where people have difficulty accepting unconditional Love and insist on paying so they don’t owe, I usually refuse the donation to help them learn to accept Love. Or, tell them to give it to their church.
Thank you for showing God’s love by His works through you. I read part of a book once about how Hell is being a sinful (and unsaved) person in the presence of God.
It seemed to make sense, but so different than what I grew up with. But - it would perhaps be better to be cast into Hell with one’s sin, than to be in the presence of God and knowing that your sin is keeping you from Him. An Eternity of regret. (Well - that would be what the typical version of Hell would be like too...!)
Sorry, but I’ll go with Jesus’ description of Hell. Given a choice between the Bible and a FReeper, no problem.
I’m definitely going with Jesus’ description of Hell. It is a physical, real place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
and .......
Psalm 50:21
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
They have been since the beginning. And they will be burned up in the fire and cease to exist in the end.
It seems to be God’s ammo to allow evil to reach its full fruition so that there is no question in anyone’s mind what it is just before he takes it out for good.
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