There are nine and a half-million instances of the correct spelling, Yom KIPPUR. There are ZERO google citations of the embarrassing "Kipper" error in your title and your piece.
Posted on 09/14/2021 7:06:53 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
Back to 2 Cor. 5 — Paul calls us “ambassadors” for Christ.
So, as I understand the role of an ambassador, our message is to be whatever his message is; we don’t get to change the particulars.
I look at it this way, if Jack says you’ve been bad and were in danger of being hung by the Sheriff, but Jack intervened and cleared your name, are you mad at Jack because he told you that you were about to get hung for being bad, or are you completely relieved, and grateful to Jack for saving your life?
I think part of preaching the severity of the predicament of the sinner is to give the legitimate backdrop for the kindness and mercy of God manifest in His forgiveness. If we never know how completely deadly our situation was, how could we begin to be properly grateful for being saved out of it?
I COMPLETELY agree that there’s no call to OVERDO it, and lambaste sinners with insults, and threats of hellfire and brimstone. But it’s the kindness of God that leads sinners to repentance, and part of revealing the depth of His kindness is revealing the depth of the debt that He forgave.
And here’s — I think — the bottom line: absent God personally executing Divine judgment upon His Son at Calvary, He would be bound by Divine Justice to execute that judgement upon each and every one of us. We were REALLY in the very WORST of ways, and I think it amplifies our gratitude toward Him for us to contemplate it. So, yeah, maybe you don’t just POUR it on the new guy just getting to the alter to get saved, but you give him a taste so he can understand there’s gravity to this matter; there’s a humongous downside he’s free of because of Jesus’ sacrifice on The Cross.
Above all this: heed the Holy Spirit in the moment; he will be faithful to guide you to say it the right way for that person, or for that group.
I think part of preaching the severity of the predicament of the sinner is to give the legitimate backdrop for the kindness and mercy of God manifest in His forgiveness.
***Perhaps you have a bible verse that backs up your thinking? Jesus said He came not to judge, so it’s not our place to insert the “ severity of the predicament of the sinner “ into the interaction. It is the Holy Spirit’s job, not ours. That makes our job far easier: Preaching the GOOD news, not the bad news.
John 3:17 is simply affirming that final judgment of the type that will be rendered at the White Throne wasn’t Jesus’ mission.
***I don’t buy that AT ALL. Jesus says multiple times that He came not to judge. There’s a reason He said it. Because it’s TRUE. Once a person steps on that particular truth, they can climb out of that Psalm 40:2 slimy pit of judgementalism many have dug for themselves and others.
Well, Peter didn’t mince any words in his sermon in Acts 2:
Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, wonders, and miraculous signs that God performed among you through him, just as you yourselves know — this man .. you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles.
— Acts 2:22-23
This would have been an especially sharp rebuke seeing as the Jews were under Roman occupation, which made the handing over of a Jew to the Gentile government for execution very nearly an act of treason against Abraham.
But Peter continued:
Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.
— Acts 2:36
Peter doesn’t pile on, but he doesn’t soft-pedal the truth, either; he tells the people what they are accountable for, what they have done, how they have sinned. And ABSOLUTELY YES it was the Holy Spirit working among that crowd Who convicted them inwardly, of that sin; Who “pierced them to the heart” such that they cried out, “What must we do to be saved?!”
Finally, the text notes:
With many other words he testified [warned] and exhorted them saying, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!
— Acts 2:40
Again, I see no call to “lay it on thick”; I think the standard Peter follows here, of just being honest with people, is righteous.
And I should add this, as well: whatever you know the Holy Spirit is leading you to do in any specific instance — DO THAT. This here is just, I think, a useful general guideline wherein we can say with some conviction, “Peter did it this way, and God honored his preaching with the salvation of many, so I’m going to follow that example.”
Judgementalism has already laid it on very, very thick for more than a generation. Overdone. I see its adherents all across the church and here on FR.
I recently preached the gospel to a roommate and all he wanted to talk about was judgementalism. That’s how pervasive it is in churchianity and ordinary bible-believing church circles. It simply gets in the way of preaching the good news. There is no reason to defend it by trying to introduce a continuum of judgementalism. Jesus said He came not to judge, so we should not judge. Period. For at least a couple of generations.
It's Yom Kippur.
“I don’t buy that AT ALL. Jesus says multiple times that He came not to judge.”
Here it is in multiple English versions:
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%203:17
So, I think the first observation must be that there is more than one sense to the word “judge.” I can judge a contest, I can judge someone’s character, I can judge their trial for Capital Murder. So there’s an assessing “judge” (this chili is better than that chili), a moral “judge” (”He’s a bad seed”), a legal judge (pronouncing guilt or innocence, rendering a legal condemnation to a sentence).
If I read you right, you are of the opinion that Jn. 3:17 speaks of “to judge” as in the second, moral sense, abuse of which, or exercise of which by persons of no authority to do so, becomes “being judge-y,” and judgmental.
Basis the many English versions using “condemn,” it seems to me the third sense is what is meant, for I don’t think any version would go beyond the Greek to a rendering as strong as “condemn” if the Greek could be rightly rendered using an English word of less gravity. It seems especially evident in the Amplified, which presents a robust sense: “to judge and condemn the world [that is, to initiate the final judgment of the world],” and the New Living Version presents it simply, “to say it is guilty”; also indicating the legal meaning.
So, that’s my read on the matter, and I would caution: we’re looking at a single verse, when the matter bears an investigation in the light of the full counsel of scripture. And that would take time I cannot now invest. I suppose, then, I’ll call my conclusion “preliminary,” and leave the matter open for further input if/when you have other insight to contribute. I’m always welcoming of thoughtful discussion, so feel free “as the Spirit moves you.”
It is more than just John 3:17. It is throughout the new testament.
This desire you have to hang onto judgementalism is a hindrance to preachers of the REAL good news.
This generation is becoming so sensitive, I wonder that we can even discuss plain versus wavy potato chips, without one side or the other crying out in offense.
In that environment, rendering any judgment is immediately caustic.
Flip it the other way around though, and the taking of offense is revealed as a weapon to firewall against legitimate evaluation; a profound rebuking of valid criticism. And we’ve all seen that, “What? MY little Johnny did WHAT? You LIE! MY son would NEVER...” You know the method: take inordinate offense at the very suggestion in order beat back the possible revelation that it’s true.
This generation has grown unbelievably adept at exactly this.
The encouragement of Paul to Timothy is perhaps applicable:
I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction. For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching...
— 1 Timothy 4:1-3
With the way people are on hair trigger to take offense, that time is today.
by the very verse you quoted from, “Christ Jesus, who is going to judge the living and the dead”. It is Jesus who will judge. Not already judged.
We will some day judge angels but God will judge people. Not us.
Clinging to judgementalism is not sound teaching.
“...desire you have to hang onto judgementalism...”
That’s not what I have been saying; I have said, instead, that “to condemn” and “to be judgmental” AREN’T the same.
The clarity of v.17 is that rather than coming to condemn, Jesus’ came to save the world.
So, I don’t see how the question of condemnation vs. judgmentalism comes up; I see condemnation vs. salvation in the verse, and Jesus’ mission was the latter.
I’m a little lost as to how this is understood as in some way promoting judgmentalism, or at least making it permissible.
“Clinging to judgementalism is not sound teaching.”
Agreed.
And forgive me, but I don’t know how you came to think I thought judgmentalism was OK, unless perhaps you think Peter, in Acts 2, was being judgmental toward his hearers in naming them as those who sent Christ to The Cross??
There’s a pernicious nature to judgmentalism, an illegitimacy to it, and that’s not at all what I’d advocate.
Good to hear.
Exactly my friend; and rejoicing in the Messiah of Israel; Isaiah 53; Zech. 1210-14; Yom Kipper needs a a goat and Lamb and God has provided one; and I rejoice; what is so shameful about that?
It's Yom Kippur
-UR. Not -ER.
Well... then Google is wrong.. I checked it there : )
There are nine and a half-million instances of the correct spelling, Yom KIPPUR. There are ZERO google citations of the embarrassing "Kipper" error in your title and your piece.
Wow... ok... you got me.... I guess everything you will ever say for right now will always be right...lol.. and everything I write on will be wrong...
But.. before God and angels I did; but even if I spelled “Kippur” wrongly; what are your biblical thoughts out of the Torah; Prophets and Psalns of this high holy feast of the LORD? And where is your covering?
Childish. Did you notice how long it took you to admit you misspelled the holiday you were discussing? And even with that, you're snarky.
Reluctance to acknowledge even an obvious spelling error goes to a character.
It's like someone providing an exegesis on Christ's birth and calling it "Crisssmas."
Any Christian would assume you lacked respect, which is how any Jewish person would read "The Fulfillment of Yom KIPPER." I'd say an instant apology and correction would have been the right course if you truly were interested in communicating with a Jewish audience.
This is childish, you are seeking to play got you and discredit and I won’t play. You are good at what you do and what you are seeking to do, and it speaks volumes to all here at FR. You are seeking to read way too much into all of this then is there.
It is pretty obvious to all you have a subtle agenda to discredit a well-received biblical position held by Jews and gentiles who have placed their trust in the Messiah of Israel.
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