Daily Mass Gospel Reflection- Will you leave me too?

Word on Fire Ministry ^ | 8-22_2021 | Aux. Bishop R. Barron

[MurphsLaw]

Twenty-first Sunday in Ordinary Time

John 6:60-69

Friends, we come today to the end of the extraordinary sixth chapter of John’s Gospel. Before this, Jesus told his listeners, "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you." Well, today, we have the denouement of the story.

We hear that "many of Jesus’ disciples who were listening said, ‘This saying is hard; who can accept it?’" Notice that we are talking about Jesus’ followers. And yet they find this teaching impossible to take.

If his words were meant in a symbolic sense, they wouldn’t have had this shocking effect. If what he meant was simply, This bread is a symbol of my body, why would there be such a strong reaction? I mean, the Jewish Scriptures deal in poetic metaphor all the time. The point is that they had understood him in this context only too well.

Given every opportunity to explain himself better, Jesus does nothing of the kind. Instead, he upbraids them for their lack of faith. This is why the Catholic tradition has insisted, against all attempts to soften these words of Jesus, that he should be taken straightforwardly.

[MurphsLaw]

+++Many of Jesus’ disciples who were
listening said,
“This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were
murmuring about this,
he said to them, “Does this shock you?
What if you were to see the Son of Man
ascending
to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life,
while the flesh is of no avail.
The words I have spoken to you are Spirit
and life.
But there are some of you who do not Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who
would not believe
and the one who would betray him.
And he said,
“For this reason I have told you that no
one can come to me
unless it is granted him by my
Father.”

As a result of this,
many of his disciples returned to their
former way of life
and no longer accompanied him.
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you
also want to leave?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom
shall we go?
You have the words of eternal life.
We have come to believe
and are convinced that you are the Holy
One of God.”+++

[PeterPrinciple]

If his words were meant in a symbolic sense, they wouldn’t have had this shocking effect.

---

That is a weak argument.

yes it can be taken metaphorically or literally.

It would not be uncommon for them to take it literally, after all it was quite common in other religions.

There is much more evidence that it is metaphorical.

But lets use different words. Is it to be interpreted carnaly or spiritually. There is not doubt we are to participate in a spiritual sense. That is why they could not understand, at that point the Holy Spirit had not entered to help them understand.

To understand that as literal and carnal, would mean the Holy Spirit is not present, just like the verse presents.

[Cronos]

This was definitely not metaphorical. Jesus repeats it thrice.
Moreover he uses the very specific word to gnaw on the meat. This is not a metaphor.
A large chunk of disciples left Him. He didn’t clear it up that it was a metaphor.

[PeterPrinciple]

I repeat

To understand that as literal and carnal, the Holy Spirit is not present as the verse presents.

Joh 3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

Now are you also going to take that literally and carnally? Jesus says it many times in many ways.

[PeterPrinciple]

Mat 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable,

---

Jesus ALWAYS spoke in parables, Why?

and he also said repeatedly

Mar_4:9 Then He said, “Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”

Now where does one get ears?

Pro 20:12 Ears to hear and eyes to see—both are gifts from the LORD.

After Jesus LEFT what were his instructions? Now this was literal. What is the common theme?

Rev_2:7 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give fruit from the tree of life in the paradise of God.

Rev_2:11 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. Whoever is victorious will not be harmed by the second death.

Rev_2:17 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give some of the manna that has been hidden away in heaven. And I will give to each one a white stone, and on the stone will be engraved a new name that no one understands except the one who receives it.

Rev_2:29 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.

Rev_3:6 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.

Rev_3:13 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.

Rev_3:22 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.”

Rev_13:9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.

[edwinland]

“I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

Now are you also going to take that literally and carnally? Jesus says it many times in many ways.

The Bible tells us that this one is not to be taken carnally.

"1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

By the way, there indeed was a time Jesus spoke metaphorically and his listeners understood his statement physically:

“Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

In that case, by the time the gospel was written it was blindingly obvious that Jesus was not talking about actually building the temple in three days instead of 46 years because he obviously had not rebuilt the temple in three days, and instead the temple of his body was destroyed and raised in three days, so John could have just left it at that and we would all know that Jesus was speaking metaphorically about his body and not literally about the Temple.

But John doesn't do that. Even though the only possibility is that Jesus was speaking metaphorically (unlike in the Bread of Life meditation) John spells out quite clearly that the people who took him literally were mistaken, and tells us that it was a metaphor about Jesus' body:

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

[MurphsLaw]

Lets use a different time. Say 31A.D.
You're a disciple of Christ.

Do you walk away from Christ here, never to follow him again?

[PeterPrinciple]

Lets use a different time. Say 31A.D.
You’re a disciple of Christ.

Do you walk away from Christ here, never to follow him again?

---

I am not sure of your point.

But the proper answer is that it is only by God’s grace that I wouldn’t walk away.

[MurphsLaw]

I always wonder if I would have walked away.... many people this very day walk away from Christ and his Church for their "own" ideals. This is how it has always been since the beginning.

+++Jesus knew from the beginning the
ones who would not believe
and the one who would betray him.+++

Some scholars say it was at this point Judas decided his fate, to turn away from Christ. One of the chosen 12.
And when Christ asks the Apostles if they were going to leave too... He puts the entire course of Salvation history on the line... Thank God Peter spoke up...

[Cronos]

Firstly - Revelation is written by John and the words of John written in 64 AD

secondly, Jesus clearly mentions when something is a metaphor and when it isn't

if you read in the Bible, starting from John 6:30, we read

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

They asked Him for a sign, saying that Moses gave them manna in the desert. If Jesus (according to them) was aspiring to the level of Moses, He should do something as big as that.

and Jesus says something strange to them -- He says Moses didn't give you bread, My father did, and bread that comes down from heaven. Then He says that HE is the bread of life, HE is the manna -- and manna was to be eaten.

The people around Him made the same mistake you did, which is to think he was speaking as a metaphor.

Yet Jesus REPEATED the same thing, saying

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And now the crowd is openly rebellious saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
And

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't.
In this case, look at the reaction of his DISCIPLES, people who had heard his teachings for so long and followed him

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”...

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the Jews and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury.So, if you believe that this was just a metphor, you mean to say that Christ is rewarding people for crucifying Him?!! That's nonsensical, sorry.

You cannot even say it was a metaphor by incorreclty comparing it to John 10:9 (I am the gate/doorway) or John 15:1 (I am the true vine) is because this is not referenced in the entire verse in the same way as John 6 which shows the entire incident from start to finish of Jesus saying His body is to be eaten, repeating it and seeing his disciples go and not correcting them (as he did in Matthew 16).

Even in the literal sense -- Christ says he is the gateway to heaven and the vine such that we get nourishment with him as the connecting path. But John 6 is much much more than mere symbolism as He categorically states that "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

Even at the end of John 6, Jesus rebukes those who think of what He has said as a metaphor by emphasising that

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Jesus repeats the rebuke against just thinking in terms of human logic (Calvin's main problem) by saying

John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

[Cronos]

God’s grace gives you the ability to not walk away. However note that God gave you the free will to reject Him.

Because He wants true love, freely given to freely accept His freely given grace.

If you hold to predestination you rob God of that and make yourself just an automaton