Op-Ed: "Francis Has Unleashed a War: It Will End With the Full Triumph of Tradition."

Rorate Caeli ^ | July 19, 2021 | Roberto de Mattei

[amihow]

Of course mini skirts not respectful nor mmodest. And remedy for minis and praries is the same. No. Both disallowed in Mass.

[StAnDeliver]

"I have lots of friends who go to the TLM. Even they admit the attendees can get cultish, sort of like the Charismatics have at times..In another diocese I have friends who quit going to TLM because they thought the dress and the tone were causes of scandal. The girls wearing prarie skirts and head coverings of fancy cloth was showy and distracting, rather than modest and respectful. Is this the issue rather than any disrespect for the TLM on Francis part?"

First of all, your parish priest must be a saint lol. I make joke.

We enjoy the Traditional Mass and try to take one in once a month, and travel occasionally to do so. One of them has an actual acolyte who was brought up under Lefebvre. His Latin Mass is extraordinary. He refuses Holy Communion to anyone he does recognize as a member of his parish in good standing, and he maintains the 'old rules' to encompass that parish membership.

Now we get to your question.

Bergorglio has attempted to cancel Benedict's '07 motu proprio because he considers many of these parishes to be completely out of line with his humanism. And to the end you criticize priests in your opening paragraph for their "sloppiness" in offering the Traditional Mass, that is the more precise word for Bergoglio's humanism, rather than some priest who does not know Latin at his heart struggling to simply learn.

Meanwhile many of these great American parishes who offer only the Latin Mass know exactly what is going on, that this cold-hearted Jesuit is directly exercising his ugliness against FSSP and other traditionalists because they enjoin their parishoners to maintain traditional views, and Bergoglio believes he was elected to stamp that out, and he has targeted every branch who he knows held out against him for 2 days and 5 ballots, while the St. Gallen mafia wore down the mushy middle.

I spent Sunday morning perusing the quite-useful Latin Mass Directory to survey the outcome. Most, if not all parishes that offer the Traditional Mass, swatted Bergoglio aside without any concern, with zero mentions of asking their archbishops for permission to continue the Traditional Mass. To share a couple of examples:

How extraordinary and yet how typical of Bergoglio to continually incite the masses -- or the Masses, as it were -- and bring the Church together united against a common enemy, not the devil: but his vassal in robes!

[Marchmain]

That’s a common argument against the TLM, the “cultish” aspect. Anyone ever noticed the fanatical, belligerant, elitist attitude of Catholic Democrats?

[amihow]

Lol. Indeed.

[amihow]

I attended TLM decades ago. I choose not to now for various reasons, but begrudge no one the right to attend themselves.

I do get touchy having to defend V2v, JP2 and Paul6th and John 23rd however to many TLM people.

I recognize the abuses in the Novus Ordo and the TLM. I do not like them, but the valid Eucharist and Scripture as prescribed are the most important.

V2 was validly called, implemented and signed by Pope. We all need to know it and fight abuses and quit thinking what Mass we go to is the most important way to be Catholic.

[oldfart]

My wife is a Methodist so we (obviously) attend different Churches each Sunday. But she is far more knowledgeable about Biblical issues than I. She has repeatedly told me that our politicians have been co-opted by demons which are trying to split the American people into small groups so as to make it easier to defeat them.

“Divide and conquer, right?

She also points out that Bergoglio is using the exact same tactic on the largest Christian Church in the world — for the same reason!

Perhaps she’s onto something...

[rmichaelj]

I understand your point about being distracting and a point of vanity but it is bizarre to argue that in today’s society that long skirts are a distracting problem and should be banned from mass. Mini-skirts are always immodest. A long skirt or ornate head covering could possibly be a source of vanity- but that would be in the intention of the wearer and likely unknowable to most.

Is it possible your friends were either making a mountain out of a molehill or using it as an excuse to wear what they wanted?

[Salman]

Sodomy will soon be a sacrament celebrated on the altar.

There are large "mainline Protestant" denominations already performing "religious" same sex marriages, so you're not too far off.

[MurphsLaw]

I'm the same way... V2 is the scapegoat for a cultural world that has gone diabolically evil. V2 didn't cause the post-war moral decline - and clergy sex abuse scandals pre date V2- Reverence for the Sacraments have declined no doubt, and that IS a symptom of bad liturgy- but it will always come back on the faith of the believer... and the relevance of Faith in their life...
Cant say what the Church would look like today if V2 never happened, if Better- or - Worse...
Yet the societal evil would still be advancing and consuming our humanity- in as fast of a decline.. That we know...

One thing we do know as well - (for better or worse) is that it was BECAUSE OF V2 that we can speak and interact -complain- on such a level within the Church --- to have a voice.
Before the council, Parishioner involvement was a tightly held constituency- and outside that, you did not question... the Pastor/religious were always right.

Maybe we would not have need for a vocal laity if V2 didn't happen - but I don't think so, given the breakdown of society...

The Lord does work in mysterious ways that we cannot guess...

[itsahoot]

I do not see this move on Francis’ part so terrible.

Maybe not but you should see so much rotten coming from this Communist Homo lover that would make you question the legitimacy of this Pope.

[Marchmain]

I have seen a local young lady wear a t-shirt to mass with the slogan “F-— Trump” on it. Compared to that do we really want to be so picky as to measure hemlines?

[rmichaelj]

The two go together. If modesty rules are maintained then you won’t see vulgarity. Furthermore if you are trying to to raise young men and women to virtue- yes it matters.

The rule at every traditional mass that I’ve been to is that the priest is the one to have a discussion with those that don’t follow the guidelines, which helps avoid the busybody layperson (usually a lay woman) who “measures hemlines.

Assuming he saw it- Why on earth didn’t your priest have a firm talk to the lady with the Vulgar T-shirt!?!

[amihow]

I have immense concern for Him. May the Holy Spirit keep him from harming the Church. So far, it would appear he just toys with it, but never deals death blows as far as I am aware. I get so frustrated with him, I avoid reading everything about his papacy.

[amihow]

Ah, but the political evils will not butt up against the promises of Christ. The Church will never be defeated.

[MasonGal]

I agree with you.

[amihow]

Regardless of the intention of wearers, both skirts can cause discomfort in others.

[rmichaelj]

That’s a common argument against the TLM, the “cultish” aspect.

When you get beat on for 50 years like a rented mule it does tend to make you circle the wagons :). Having said that the traditionalists who are "internet warriors" do trend to the crazier side. Also the attitudes of traditionalists in regards to modesty (and I'm talking about the average ones- not those who take it too far) can make them seem cultish when compared to how immodest cultures worldwide have become.

[rmichaelj]

With respect- if a long skirt causes you discomfort the problem might be you.

[amihow]

Perhaps? What might be problem?

[rmichaelj]

I meant the generic you as in humanity in general, not you personally. Having said that I have heard some people believe that those who dress modestly are somehow judging those who don’t.

While possible, it isn’t necessarily true. Most families who dress modestly are well aware that our modern culture does not teach how important modest dress is and make allowances for those who don’t know better.