Why Purgatory Is a Dangerous Doctrine

Christian Post ^ | 11/21/2017 | Dan Delzell

[FreshPrince]

Google is your friend

[FreshPrince]

Southern Baptists

A survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care in 1993 found that 14 percent of Southern Baptist ministers said they had engaged in “inappropriate sexual behavior.”

By 2000, a report to the Baptist General Convention found the incidence of sexual abuse by clergy had reached “horrific proportions.” Victims advocates have derided church leadership for protecting predators and covering up crimes.

In 2016 the Southern Baptist Convention elected Steve Gaines as its president. A few years earlier, Gaines, at the time head of a Memphis, Tennessee, church was implicated in clergy child molestation case. Investigators said Gaines knew for years that one of his ministers had sexually molested a child. Gaines neither reported the crime to police or his congregation, police said.

[Wpin]

Instead of wasting your time reading Protestant lies, try reading the doctors of the Catholic Church. Your so misguided it is the only thing that can possibly correct your addled mind...

[Wpin]

Wrong...but, what is truth to a Protestant?

[Wpin]

Upon this rock I shall build my Church...that was the beginning of the Catholic Church, period. Jesus did not just speak figuratively, but literally as the Basilica was built upon Peter’s grave. You cannot win against God friend.

[daniel1212]

"Exactly. I just wanted scriptural consensus that indeed, sins will be forgiven beyond our earthly lives. We agree on the same thing."

We agree on a lot of things, thus we are both on FR, however the difference here is on where sins will be forgiven (plus the sense in which they are) and the purpose. In Biblical faith since effectual, obedient penitent Abrahamic-type faith is imputed for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) rendering one "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) and positionalluy seated with Christ in Heaven (Eph. 1:6) by whose blood he has direct access into the holy of holies in Heaven, (Heb. 10:19) then he/she will go to henceforth be with the Lord as long as one dies in that effectual or when the Lord returns. (, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note ) Even though as Paul who promised this direct translation, they are not actually perfect in character though he sought to be. (Philippians 3:12-21)

Thus those who sin and are forgiven during the millennial reign of Christ are the unconverted who survived the Tribulation and whom Christ shall rule over with a rod of iron (and most rebel at the end in the final test of man, when the devil is loosed for a time. (Zech. 12-14; Revelation 19:11 - 20:15) Meanwhile the redeemed with have been delivered of their vile flesh and see the Lord and receive their new bodies, which is the only transformation after this life that Paul and the NT church manifestly looked forward to, not some postmortem purgatorial process commencing at death. (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 John 3:1,2)

In contrast, under the law perfect full obedience was required, (Galatians 3:10) and which system was the epitome of salvation by merit, (Galatians 3:20) and in Catholicism one is misleadingly said to have been accounted to have truly merited everlasting life, but must actually attain perfection of character and pay any outstanding debt of suffering in order to actually enter Heaven. Which means forgiveness for "venial sins" a "redeemed" soul was perhaps ignorant of or for sins such had not yet paid the temporal penalty for.

Thus the lowest common denominator concurrence you state still leaves us with a world and an eternity of difference.

[daniel1212]

You are late to the party of posted parroted RC propaganda. See read - some - and - some - and more - of - my - posts - and posts - here - so far on on the subject, by the grace of God.

[daniel1212]

"Upon this rock I shall build my Church...that was the beginning of the Catholic Church, period. Jesus did not just speak figuratively, but literally as the Basilica was built upon Peter’s grave. You cannot win against God friend."

Indeed we cannot win against God and which is why you should not be part of a system in which distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels).

Whether or not the Basilica was built upon Peter’s grave is a matter of dispute, not fact, yet regardless, the NT church never taught that Peter was the "rock" of Mt. 16:18 upon which the church is built, interpreting Mt. 16:18, rather than upon the rock of the faith confessed by Peter, thus Christ Himself.

For in contrast to Peter, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (“petra”) or "stone" (“lithos,” and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) Rome's current catechism attempts to have Peter himself as the rock as well, but also affirms: “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424) which understanding some of the so-called “church fathers” concur with.)

[Old Yeller]

Like Limbo only with purgatory you have a chance for heaven.

How low can you go?

[MHGinTN]

Without the righteousness of Christ YOU cannot approach God. ONLY God can impute the righteousness of Christ to YOU. Has He?... And just so you’ve been told, GOD only imputes the Righteousness of Christ to a lost sinner ONCE. Do do overs. And GOD has told you how you receive that Precious Righteousness, and it ain’t by wortks you have or will do for you cannot justify yourself to a Holy God since YOU have no righteousness unless GOD imputes it to YOU, and never as an exchange function, only as Grace which glorifies Whom HE sent for YOUR Justification.

[Old Yeller]

Let's talk about the Rosary now.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Matthew 6:7

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Luircin]

Murdering me in your heart, are you?

You made the assertion. Prove it or admit you’re spewing nonsense.

Oh, and accusing me of lying is against RF rules.

But what does truth matter to a Catholic?

[Luircin]

Yes, you repeated back to me exactly what I told you.

Good job; you want a gold star?

How many of the sources *protected* and *enabled* the guilty? All you have, at best, is one single denomination and no proof of enabling.

Pedos try to infiltrate everywhere; it’s only Catholicism that moves them around to bugger even more children.

[Antoninus]

Your Cracker-Jack theology will never and can never eclipse the deep knowledge and wisdom of the Church Fathers. May Saint Gregory of Nyssa and Pope Saint Gregory the Great pray for you.

[FreshPrince]

Since Protestantism is so decentralized and fractured it would be be impossible to know the extant of all the covering up that has and no doubt continues to go on. I only need to look to the local “church” here in town that continues to support its convicted child sex abuser “minister” to know there is plenty of dirty laundry in the Protestant ranks as well....

So really, if you think a Christian should abandoned his church because of bad clergy, then set an example and take your own advice.

[MurphsLaw]

Soul- shining? There's a punch line there somewhere... and bring the snark_ it's all good... as long as one doesn't "jump the snark" which is to be expected... but as difficult as it maybe, never dismiss that your Faith is rooted in, and born from the Catholic Church - 1500 years of it

1. Asking Catholics to define Church Doctrine to you can be dicey at best. Many are so poorly catechized the can't explain The Real Presence of the Eucharist and the Holy consecration of it either - which is core to their Faith... and as it traced back to the 1st century Christians. Think of it as asking for directions in a foreign country. Hit or miss... youre better off with your own research.

2. Its all about learned perspective as well. Youre instructed to see Purgatory as unnecessary and superfluous to Sanctification... in that the "Once for All" Sacrifice becomes insufficient or incomplete if Purgatory is allowed. We see that we can ONLY believe in this purification process BECAUSE OF Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross... and ONLY then has his suffering in fact has made it possible for us to be Purified.

3.The roots of a Purgatory state pre-date the developed Doctrine of the Church- although the Church has declared it so... in the same way The Trinity was defined as Church doctrine. The concept of purification - in one form or another- was held by pre-Christian Jews, post-Christian Jews, early Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox. While it was excepted for centuries throughout the World- the desire to deny its existence waited until the Protestant Reformation began - and so now we have the overblown brouhaha today with only Protestants denying it. Overblown because it is not a central to the Faith- and we just don't know what it absolutely entails.

The section on purgatory in the Church Catechism is only three paragraphs OUT OF 2800... Basically then it is boils down to ONLY 3 points about Purgatory that are doctrinal.

1- that there is a sanctifying purification after we die bodily
2- that this purification will include some kind of pain or discomfort - Not a walk in the park as some may think
3- that God in fact assists those in this purification in response to the actions of the living. (Bet ya didnt know about that one..huh?)

The Church has never defined Purgatory as a place - existentially or otherwise.. nor set down time factors or process details- so details beyond the Catechism that may be bandied about are usually falsely attributed to the Church.

Works- well... I can only give you some of our Scriptural guidance...

Our works are meant to be for the Glory of God - not us.

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

That we were created for Good works

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them

That our Works grow and compliment with our Faith...as CS Lewis said.."Like 2 blades of a pair scissors, necessary for each other...useless without the other"(sic)

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

there is a lot more..but thats the best this unworthy Catholic can do for now.... I would suggest your own research and a Sunday Mass to understand it in your own way.

[ebb tide]

Asking Catholics to define Church Doctrine to you can be dicey at best. Many are so poorly catechized the can't explain The Real Presence of the Eucharist and the Holy consecration of it either

That's hillarious, coming from you, Murph.

Your hero Bobby Barron seems no better catechized than you:

Accordingly, he (Bergoglio) recommends two fundamental moves. First, we can recognize, even in irregular or objectively imperfect unions, certain positive elements that participate, as it were, in the fullness of married love. Thus for example, a couple living together without benefit of marriage might be marked by mutual fidelity, deep love, the presence of children, etc. Appealing to these positive marks, the Church might, according to a “law of gradualness,” move that couple toward authentic and fully-integrated matrimony (295). This is not to say that living together is permitted or in accord with the will of God; it is to say that the Church can perhaps find a more winsome way to move people in such a situation to conversion.

First Thoughts on “Amoris Laetitia”

Talk about the blind leading the blind.

[Wpin]

Where did you get such nonsense? You better hope redemption is real or you’re in big trouble. Faith without good works is dead friend. You don’t have Jesus Christ in your heart unless you thirst to do good works. Taking a Bible verse here and one there to fit God into your belief system will not bring you closer to Him.

[Wpin]

“Whoever told you that Luther removed part of the Bible is a repeating a damnable lie.

1: Catholics didn’t even have an infallable canon until after Luther’s death.

2: Luther did include those books in his translation of the Bible.

Whoever taught you is either a liar or an ignoramus.”

The above nonsense is YOUR assertion. It is you who has to prove that crap is true. Good luck...

[MurphsLaw]

BE AFRAID!.....BE VERY AFRAID !